1 1 BEFORE THE OHIO POWER SITING BOARD 2 ________________________________ 3 In the Matter of the Application 4 of Frasier Solar, LLC for a Case No. 5 Certificate of Environmental 23-796-EL-BGN 6 Compatibility and Public Need 7 ________________________________ 8 HEARING 9 DATE: Thursday, April 4, 2024 10 TIME: 5:00 p.m. 11 BEFORE: Attorney Examiner David Hicks 12 Attorney Examiner Manette Asta 13 LOCATION: Knox Memorial Theater 14 112 East High Street 15 Mount Vernon, OH 43050 16 REPORTED BY: Nic Joseph 17 JOB NO.: 6379092 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 ON BEHALF OF APPLICANT FRASIER SOLAR, LLC: 3 MICHAEL SETTINERI, ESQUIRE 4 ANNA SANYAL, ESQUIRE 5 Vorys Sater Seymour & Pease LLP 6 52 East Gay Street, P.O. Box 1008 7 Columbus, Ohio 43215 8 mjsettineri@vorys.com 9 (614) 464-5462 10 aasanyal@vorys.com 11 (614) 464-5424 12 13 ON BEHALF OF INTERVENOR INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF 14 ELECTRICAL WORKERS, LOCAL UNIONS 608 & 1105: 15 ROBERT DOVE, ESQUIRE 16 Kegler Brown Hill & Ritter 17 65 East State Street, Suite 1800 18 Columbus, Ohio 43215 19 rdove@keglerbrown.com 20 (614) 462-5443 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont'd) 2 ON BEHALF OF INTERVENOR THE OHIO ENVIRONMENTAL 3 COUNCIL: 4 CHRIS TAVENOR, ESQUIRE 5 The Ohio Environmental Council 6 1145 Chesapeake Avenue 7 Columbus, Ohio 43212 8 ctavenor@theoec.org 9 (614) 487-7506 10 11 ON BEHALF OF INTERVENOR PRESERVE KNOX COUNTY OHIO, 12 LLC: 13 JACK VAN KLEY, ESQUIRE 14 Van Kley Law, LLC 15 132 Northwoods Boulevard, Suite C-1 16 Columbus, Ohio 43235 17 jvankley@vankleywalker.com 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont'd) 2 ON BEHALF OF INTERVENORS JARED YOST AND KNOX SMART 3 DEVELOPMENT, LLC: 4 ZACHARY WIEGEL, ESQUIRE 5 Freeman Mathis & Gary 6 65 East State Street, Suite 2550 7 Columbus, Ohio 43215 8 zachary.weigel@fmglaw.com 9 (614) 683-8411 10 11 ON BEHALF OF INTERVENOR ETHAN ROBERTSON: 12 JACOB ELKIN, ESQUIRE 13 MATTHEW EISENSON, ESQUIRE 14 Sabin Center for Climate Change Law, Columbia Law 15 School 16 435 West 116th Street 17 New York, New York 10027 18 jacob.elkin@columbia.edu 19 (212) 853-3718 20 mbe2129@columbia.edu 21 (508) 397-8177 22 23 24 25 5 1 A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont'd) 2 ALSO PRESENT: 3 Jen French, Chair, Ohio Power Siting Board 4 Anne Vogel, Director, Ohio Environmental 5 Protection Agency; Member, Ohio Power Siting 6 Board 7 Damian Sikora, Chief Legal Counsel, Ohio 8 Department of Natural Resources 9 Craig Adair, Project Manager for Frasier Solar 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 1 I N D E X 2 WITNESSES: DX CX RDX RCX 3 DAN LASKIN 27 4 5 DONALD COMIS 32 6 7 PATTI RAY 34 8 9 LINDSEY KOHLENBURG 39 10 By Mr. Van Kley 41 11 12 BARRY LESTER 43 13 By Mr. Settineri 46 14 By Mr. Van Kley 51 15 16 ANDREW DAVIS 52 17 By Mr. Van Kley 55 18 By Mr. Wiegel 56 19 20 ANGELY HERRERA DAVIS 57 21 22 GARY HOUSER 62 23 By Mr. Van Kley 66 24 25 7 1 I N D E X (Cont'd) 2 WITNESSES: DX CX RDX RCX 3 KATHY GAMBLE 71 4 By Mr. Wiegel 74 5 6 YANCY SHAW 76 7 By Mr. Van Kley 77 8 9 JILL GRUBB 79 10 11 ERIN SALVA 82 12 13 JANET CHANDLER 86 14 By Mr. Settineri 90 15 16 CHARLES BONSELL 91 17 By Mr. Wiegel 94 18 By Mr. Van Kley 96 19 20 SARAH GOSLEE REED 98 21 By Mr. Van Kley 101 22 23 JOE LENNON 103 24 25 CINDY LENNON 107 8 1 I N D E X (Cont'd) 2 WITNESSES: DX CX RDX RCX 3 TRINA TRAINOR 110 4 5 DRENDA KEESEE 113 6 By Mr. Settineri 117 7 8 WENDY CAGLE 121 9 10 LAURIE SUTTON 126 11 By Mr. Wiegel 130 12 By Mr. Eisenson 131 13 14 KRISTI FERRIN 135 15 16 LORI VAN VALKENBURG 140 17 By Mr. Settineri 143 18 By Mr. Elkin 143 19 20 SCOTT NOBLE 145 21 22 NORMA PARKER 149 23 24 RON BUTCHER 151 25 9 1 I N D E X (Cont'd) 2 WITNESSES: DX CX RDX RCX 3 TERESA PETERS 156 4 5 DAN PETERS 158 6 7 DARRELL BEBOUT 161 8 9 REBECCA CHAMBERLIN 164 10 11 BRAD CAROTHERS 168 12 By Mr. Van Kley 170 13 By Mr. Wiegel 171 14 15 KATIE CAROTHERS 172 16 17 TASHA MCKINNEY 176 18 19 MADONNA PIERCE 179 20 21 JAMES ECK 184 22 23 DEBBIE WELLS 187 24 By Mr. Settineri 189 25 By Mr. Weigel 190 10 1 I N D E X (Cont'd) 2 WITNESSES: DX CX RDX RCX 3 KIM FRYE 192 4 5 NICK BUNDREN 197 6 7 SALLY M. BERGER 201 8 9 JAMES HEIRONIMUS 203 10 By Mr. Van Kley 206 11 12 JERRY KELLY 208 13 By Mr. Van Kley 209 14 By Mr. Wiegel 209 15 16 FELICIA ALLEN 211 17 By Mr. Weigel 213 18 19 ROBERT BYWATERS 216 20 21 SCOTT PATTERSON 223 22 23 RON CAMERON 228 24 25 11 1 I N D E X (Cont'd) 2 WITNESSES: DX CX RDX RCX 3 DAVID GODWIN 231 4 By Mr. Van Kley 233 5 6 JOHN NORRIS 235 7 8 AMY ROWLEY 239 9 By Mr. Settineri 245 10 11 AARON BROWN 245 12 By Mr. Van Kley 249 13 14 RICHARD PIAR 251 15 By Mr. Van Kley 253 16 By Mr. Wiegel 254 17 18 SAMANTHA BARTRAM 257 19 20 CHRISTY PRESTON 262 21 22 SARA LYNN KERR 265 23 By Mr. Settineri 268 24 25 NANETTE CALES 270 12 1 I N D E X (Cont'd) 2 WITNESSES: DX CX RDX RCX 3 DANIEL C. BAKER SR. 273 4 5 BOB PHILLIPS 274 6 7 DAVID STULLER 278 8 By Mr. Settineri 280 9 By Mr. Elkin 285 10 11 BRIAN WALLACE 287 12 By Mr. Eisenson 291 13 14 ERIC HOLDENER 294 15 By Mr. Wiegel 296 16 By Mr. Van Kley 298 17 18 HEIDI HULSE 301 19 By Mr. Van Kley 306 20 By Mr. Settineri 307 21 22 MARK HULSE 309 23 24 BOB MARSELL 311 25 13 1 I N D E X (Cont'd) 2 WITNESSES: DX CX RDX RCX 3 DON MOORE 316 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 14 1 E X H I B I T S 2 NO. DESCRIPTION ID/EVD 3 (None marked.) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 15 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 JUDGE HICKS: The Ohio Power Siting 3 Board has scheduled for hearing at this time and 4 place, April 4, 2023 [sic] at 5 p.m., here at Knox 5 Memorial Theater, Case Number 23-796-EL-BGN, which is 6 captioned In the Matter of the Application of Frasier 7 Solar, LLC, for Certificate of Environmental 8 Compatibility and Public Need. 9 Subject of today's hearing is an 10 application filed by Frasier Solar for the purpose of 11 constructing and operating a solar-powered electric 12 generation facility in Clinton and Miller Townships in 13 the city of Mount Vernon in Knox County, Ohio. 14 My name is David Hicks. With me to my 15 right is Manette Asta, and we are administrative law 16 judges in the Board's legal department and will be 17 conducting tonight's hearing. 18 We also have some members of the Ohio 19 Power Siting Board here with us tonight. Pleased to 20 first introduce the Board's chair, Jennifer French. 21 And next to her is the head of the Ohio EPA, Anne 22 Vogel. And on her left, we have Damian Sikora, who is 23 representing the Ohio Department of Natural Resources. 24 Before we continue, I'm going to turn 25 it over to Chair French, who I know would like to say 16 1 a few words. 2 MS. FRENCH: Thank you. 3 First, thank you all so much for taking 4 the time out of your busy schedules to be here tonight 5 in this beautiful venue. Thank you for welcoming all 6 of us into your wonderful community. We are very, 7 very happy to be here. 8 We very much appreciate the opportunity 9 to hear from each and every one of you that wants to 10 speak tonight about your thoughts as it relates to 11 this project. Your thoughts are very, very important 12 to all of us and to our board. So thank you again for 13 taking the time to be here tonight. 14 Thank you, David. 15 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 16 So before we get started taking 17 testimony from everyone, there's some introductory 18 information I want to go over. Also, just want to 19 clear up a quick procedural matter that we can get on 20 the record now. 21 As we're on the record, just -- the 22 International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, Local 23 Unions 1105 and 608 had both filed for intervention on 24 February 26, 2024. 25 There was an entry issued on April 2, 17 1 2024, where intervention was granted for IBEW Local 2 608, but Local 1105 was inadvertently left off that 3 granting of intervention. 4 So I just want to clear up on the 5 record that both of the Locals are being granted 6 intervention in this case. That'll be clarified as 7 well in the next entry that gets issued in the 8 proceeding. 9 Carrying on, the passage of Senate Bill 10 52 provides new opportunities for county commissioners 11 and township trustees to participate in the siting of 12 solar communities. County commissioners may choose 13 one commissioner or a designee to serve as an ad hoc 14 board member. 15 In addition, township trustees may 16 choose one trustee or a designee to serve as their ad 17 hoc board member. 18 The Knox County commissioners have 19 appointed Commissioner Bill Pursel to serve as its 20 representative. I know Mr. Pursel is here. If he 21 wants to wave -- or he may be upstairs. I see him 22 waving, so he is here. 23 And the Clinton and Miller Townships 24 have appointed Galen Smith, who I see up there waving 25 as well. And with him is Mr. Doug Neil, who is the 18 1 alternate to fill in for Mr. Smith if he's not able to 2 serve as the ad hoc member. 3 We will go ahead and start, otherwise, 4 by taking appearances of the parties in the case who 5 are here and intend to participate. And we will start 6 with the applicant. 7 MR. SETTINERI: Testing. 8 JUDGE HICKS: You're good. 9 MR. SETTINERI: Thank you, Your Honor, 10 Chair French. 11 On behalf of Frasier Solar, LLC, 12 Michael Settineri and Anna Sanyal of the law firm 13 Vorys, Sater, Seymour and Pease, Columbus, Ohio 43215. 14 With me tonight also is Mr. Craig Adair, project 15 manager for Frasier Solar. 16 And I'll also note for the audience, 17 for those who have questions, there is an information 18 table outside the building where questions can be 19 answered as well. Thank you. 20 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 21 I will just go down the list here, if 22 that's -- yeah. Just go down the line; that's just as 23 easy. 24 MR. DOVE: On behalf of the 25 International Brotherhood of Electric Workers, Local 19 1 Union 608 and 1105, the law firm of Kegler, Brown, 2 Hill & Ritter, Robert Dove, 65 East State Street, 3 Suite 1800, Columbus, Ohio 43215. 4 MR. TAVENOR: On behalf of the Ohio 5 Environmental Council, Chris Tavenor. Our address is 6 1145 Chesapeake Avenue, Suite I, Columbus, Ohio 43212. 7 MR. VAN KLEY: On behalf of Preserve 8 Knox County Ohio, this is Jack Van Kley, Van Kley Law, 9 132 Northwoods Boulevard, Suite C-1, Columbus, Ohio. 10 MR. WIEGEL: On behalf of Knox Smart 11 Development/Jared Yost, Zach Wiegel, Freeman Mathis & 12 Gary, 65 East State Street, Columbus, Ohio 43215. 13 MR. ELKIN: On behalf Ethan Robertson, 14 Jacob Elkin and my colleague Matthew Eisenson from 15 Columbia Law School Sabin Center for Climate Change 16 Law, address 435 West 116th Street, New York, NY 17 10027. 18 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. Any other 19 counsel that I missed, Ohio Farm Bureau Federation, 20 Ohio Chamber of Commerce? Okay. 21 I'll just note that intervenors are not 22 required and may choose not to participate in 23 tonight's proceeding, although they may still have 24 representatives in the audience. 25 Frasier Solar's application was filed 20 1 on October 10, 2023, and supplemented on November 28, 2 2023. I will also note that board staff filed a 3 report of investigation of March 20, 2024. This 4 report is a recommendation from the board staff and 5 does not necessarily reflect what the board's final 6 determination in this case will be. 7 The purpose of today's public hearing 8 is to receive testimony regarding Frasier Solar's 9 application from entities and persons in the local 10 community who are affected by the proposed project. 11 I will point out that the public 12 hearing is not a question-and-answer session but is an 13 opportunity for you in the audience to testify to let 14 the board know what you think about the proposed 15 project. 16 I'll say that tonight's public hearing 17 is only one aspect of the process in this case. An 18 adjudicatory hearing is scheduled to begin on April 19 29, 2024, which will take place at the offices of the 20 Public Utilities Commission of Ohio. 21 I will note that tonight's hearing is 22 being transcribed by a court reporter, which you will 23 see here, Nic from Veritext. So if you plan to 24 testify, please try and speak clearly so that the 25 court reporter can accurately reflect your comments on 21 1 the record. 2 Please make sure that you verbally 3 respond to all questions that are asked so that your 4 response can be transcribed. 5 And to further assist the court 6 reporter in creating a clear record and to facilitate 7 the large number of witnesses that I know have signed 8 up to testify, we would ask that you refrain from 9 shouting or speaking from the crowd, clapping, et 10 cetera, which is going to slow things down and make it 11 very difficult for the court reporter to be able to 12 transcribe the testimony that is being given. 13 After I finish with this introduction, 14 I will begin by calling individuals on the sign-in 15 sheet to testify about the project. Each person who 16 signed up to testify will be permitted to speak once 17 about the project. 18 We will ask you to take an oath or 19 affirmation that what you are about to say is the 20 truth. Your testimony will then be considered as part 21 of the official record in this case, and it will be 22 reviewed by the board before a final decision is made 23 on the application. 24 I will also note that while the 25 administrative law judges do not intend to prohibit 22 1 anyone from testifying tonight, this local public 2 hearing is the only opportunity for non-intervening 3 parties to provide the board with sworn testimony 4 regarding the case without having to go through the 5 formal litigation process. 6 With that in mind, we will direct that 7 any intervenors that signed up to testify will testify 8 after all non-intervenor witnesses have had an 9 opportunity to provide their testimony. 10 I will also point out that intervenor 11 witnesses may be subject to cross-examination by 12 parties in the case or the bench should they decide to 13 testify. 14 As a result, you should ensure that 15 your attorney is aware of your decision to testify 16 and, if possible, participates in the proceeding as to 17 your cross-examination. Should you testify without 18 your attorney's presence, your voluntary decision to 19 testify could still subject you to potential cross. 20 I'll further note that intervenors are 21 not penalized whether they decide to testify or not 22 tonight. Should you decide that you do not want to 23 testify when I call your name from the registration 24 list, you can pass to the next witness. 25 If you decide that you'd prefer to file 23 1 written comments in the case, our representatives from 2 board staff out front that I'm sure you met as you 3 were walking in can assist you and direct you as to 4 how to file written comments. 5 Also when you walked in, board staff 6 had sign-in sheets that allowed you to sign as to 7 whether you supported or opposed the project. So 8 you're certainly free to do that at any time. 9 Okay. Well, at intermission, then, you 10 will be permitted to sign the sheets that indicate 11 whether you support or oppose the project. I will 12 touch base with staff, then, on that point. 13 Once you have testified or if you're 14 merely here to observe, you're free to leave the 15 hearing at any point. I will just reiterate that the 16 board appreciates your participation in tonight's 17 hearing. 18 We want everyone who intends to testify 19 to have the opportunity to do so. For that reason, we 20 will ask that you please keep your statement to a 21 reasonable length of no more than five minutes. 22 We're not doing this to be rude or try 23 to cut off anyone's right to testify, but in order to 24 get through everyone that has signed up tonight, we 25 will be strictly enforcing this time limit. 24 1 I have a nice sign here that we will 2 flash to you saying that you have 30 seconds left. 3 And at the five minutes, we will let you know that 4 your time has expired. 5 I will again just reiterate, though, 6 that to the extent that folks do not want to testify 7 but still want to voice their opinion, that you do 8 have the opportunity to file public comments in the 9 case docket. 10 With that, I will see if there is 11 anything from counsel before we start calling 12 witnesses to begin with testimony. 13 Mr. WIEGEL: Your Honor, Chairwoman, on 14 behalf of Knox Smart Development, we would like to 15 make a motion that the commission and the Board not 16 consider any testimony tonight from residents not 17 within Knox County. 18 It is our opinion that Senate Bill 19 52 -- it was the legislative intent of Senate Bill 52 20 to make this purely a local issue with county 21 commissioners' involvement, whether partially 22 grandfathered or not. 23 And comments from non-residents of Knox 24 County do not accurately reflect the feelings of Knox 25 County. And so we would like to motion to have them 25 1 excluded, or at the very least, object to anyone who 2 testifies that is not from Knox County. Thank you. 3 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 4 MR. VAN KLEY: On behalf Preserve Knox 5 County Ohio, we would join that objection and also 6 note that the testimony of persons who live outside of 7 Knox County is irrelevant and should not be 8 considered. 9 MR. SETTINERI: Would you like the 10 response, Your Honor? 11 JUDGE HICKS: If you would like, Mr. 12 Settineri. 13 MR. SETTINERI: Obviously, on behalf of 14 Frasier Solar, we object to the motion. These 15 projects have statewide reaching benefits. 16 For example, IBEW construction worker 17 who lives in Morrow County could drive to Knox County 18 and be able to be home at night for almost a year 19 versus having to travel out of state for jobs. 20 So reasonable statewide benefits -- all 21 testimony is welcome. The Senate Bill 52 is not 22 applicable. 23 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you, Mr. Settineri. 24 Bench will go ahead and deny that 25 motion. We are going to proceed according to the 26 1 statute and proceed with testimony from any person 2 that desires to provide such testimony. 3 With that, we are going to start off. 4 I'm going to make the necessary apology in advance if 5 I butcher anyone's name as I am calling you up. We'll 6 go ahead and announce the person and let everyone know 7 who is on deck. 8 So our first person that is signed up 9 is Dan Laskin. And on deck, I believe, is Doug 10 Connors -- Don Comis. 11 MR. LASKIN: Right here. Thanks very 12 much. 13 JUDGE HICKS: Just one moment. I'll 14 first verify that you're not an intervenor in the 15 case? 16 MR. LASKIN: No. 17 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. I just need to 18 swear you in. So raise your right hand. 19 WHEREUPON, 20 DAN LASKIN, 21 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 22 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 23 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 24 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please state 25 and full your name for the record. 27 1 THE WITNESS: Daniel, D-A-N-I-E-L, 2 Laskin, L-A-S-K-I-N. 3 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please provide 4 your address including the township? 5 THE WITNESS: 17070 Glen Road, Mount 6 Vernon, Ohio. Township is Pleasant Township here in 7 Knox County. 8 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 9 within the project area? 10 THE WITNESS: Not within the project -- 11 well, I live in Knox County, not within the direct 12 project area. 13 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go with 14 your testimony. 15 DIRECT STATEMENT 16 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 17 As I said, my name is Dan Laskin. I 18 live here in Knox County. My wife and I moved here 19 about 35 years ago. We raised our two sons here, and 20 we retired here. This is home. We've always valued 21 this area's rural environment and its ongoing farming 22 heritage. And it's through this local, close-to-home 23 lens that I view the Frasier Solar proposal. 24 At the same time, I know that we in 25 Knox County are affected inescapably by the forces 28 1 shaping the larger world. And just as I care about 2 our local environment, I also care about the larger 3 environment, in Ohio, around the country, and 4 globally. And so I see the Frasier Solar proposal 5 through that larger lens too. 6 Looking first at the bigger picture, I 7 must say that I'm deeply concerned about the serious, 8 wide-ranging environmental damage caused by climate 9 change and pollution, in many ways the result of our 10 society's excessive use of fossil fuels. 11 I believe that solar power has an 12 important role to play in supplying cleaner, safer 13 energy in this country, in Ohio, and yes, in Knox 14 County. 15 Solar works, and those of us who get 16 some of our electricity from solar panels knows that 17 it works here. Solar alone, I don't think, will meet 18 our energy needs. But it can certainly play a role. 19 It can be part of the solution. 20 And it's far healthier and safer and 21 much, much better for the environment than energy 22 derived from fossil fuels. 23 From this perspective, I support the 24 Frasier Solar plan. I support the Frasier proposal 25 from the close-to-home, local perspective too. 29 1 I see the biggest threat to our rural 2 environment as sprawling development that for years 3 has been changing the character of central Ohio, 4 changing the character of this area as well. 5 Farmers and other landowners, when they 6 face economic pressure, quite naturally turn to the 7 most lucrative opportunity, often selling their land 8 for housing development. And when that land goes into 9 housing, it is lost to agriculture forever. 10 Solar installations can offer an 11 alternative opportunity to property owners. And 12 unlike most housing, they are compatible with some 13 kinds of farming. Moreover, when the life of a solar 14 installation ends, the land it occupies can be 15 returned to agriculture. 16 A solar project like this one benefits 17 not only the property owner, but also the community in 18 the form of tax revenues or payments in lieu of taxes. 19 Compare that to new housing, which can 20 add to the demand for government services, increase 21 traffic on local roads, and put pressure on water 22 resources, all while taking the land out of farming 23 forever. 24 I certainly recognize the need for more 25 housing in this area, especially affordable housing. 30 1 But realistically, the kind of housing that goes into 2 large rural tracts consists of relatively expensive 3 homes spread across one- or two-acre lots. 4 Very few families benefit. Our local 5 housing needs remain largely unmet. Farming on that 6 land is gone, and our rural environment further 7 erodes. 8 Let's plan for new housing closer to 9 our towns. And if the owners of rural land want to 10 profit from their property, let's make solar an 11 opportunity for them, an option that in my view is a 12 win for the community. 13 Finally, as you deliberate, I trust 14 first that you will consider views from all sides and 15 that while listening to all voices, the quiet and calm 16 ones as well as the loud and angry ones, you rely 17 above all on expertise, reason, scientific consensus, 18 and a balanced view of public policy. Thank you. 19 JUDGE HICKS: Hold on just a second, 20 sir. There may be questions. 21 I'll also note for anyone that 22 testifies, if you have a written statement that you 23 would like to leave with the court reporter, you are 24 free to do so. 25 Any questions from counsel for the 31 1 witness? 2 Thank you, sir, for your testimony. 3 Up now is Don Comis, and on deck is 4 Patti Ray. 5 Mr. Comis, are you an intervenor in the 6 case? 7 MR. COMIS: No. 8 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. I'll swear you in. 9 Please raise your right hand. 10 WHEREUPON, 11 DONALD COMIS, 12 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 13 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 14 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 15 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 16 spell your name for the record. 17 THE WITNESS: Donald Comis, C-O-M-I-S. 18 JUDGE HICKS: And could you please 19 provide your address including the township. 20 THE WITNESS: 3738 Apple Valley Drive, 21 Howard Township. 22 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 23 in the project area? 24 THE WITNESS: No. 25 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 32 1 with your testimony. 2 DIRECT STATEMENT 3 THE WITNESS: If you don't -- if you 4 don't think that residential and commercial 5 development is the real threat to farmland in Knox, 6 look at my drive from Walmart to Apple Valley on Route 7 36. 8 I see barbed wire fences around two 9 storage facilities and around a barn that looks like 10 it is not part of a farm operation. 11 We just lost 375 acres of farmland sold 12 in parcels. The skeleton of one housing development 13 is already up. The main beauty is no longer along the 14 roadside but in the distant hills and valleys. And we 15 are just at the beginning of the explosion of 16 residential and commercial development. 17 I'd rather see tall prairie plants 18 hiding solar panels than houses which bring more 19 traffic or storage units with no screening. 20 And Ohio needs prairies desperately, 21 having lost nearly all of this native treasure. The 22 prairie at the Frasier Solar farm will enhance 23 farmland, leaving the soil better than it was before 24 the solar farm. 25 And it will attract pollinators to 33 1 nearby farms, not to mention quail and pheasants and 2 other wildlife, just as the Pheasants Forever Food 3 Plots do at the Campbell Farm near Apple Valley. 4 It will also rest the land just as the 5 USDA conservation reserve program does, only it will 6 do it without taxpayer money, paying farmers to lease 7 some part of their farms and to graze their sheep. It 8 will restore nitrogen lost to corn plants and loosen 9 the soil, among many other benefits. 10 Solar farms can help keep farmers 11 farming, and the lease can at least save fields from 12 irreversible development for up to 40 years. 13 Maybe that will give us time to find 14 better ways to save farmland from residential and 15 other commercial development before turf grass for 16 golf courses and lawns around homes and business 17 becomes the number one crop in Ohio, displacing 18 soybeans. 19 It is now the number two field crop in 20 Ohio, relegating corn to third place. Thank you. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Hold on just a second. 22 Any question from counsel for the 23 witness? 24 Thank you for your testimony. 25 THE WITNESS: Sure. 34 1 JUDGE HICKS: Up next is Patti Ray, and 2 on deck is Lindsey Kohlenburg. 3 Ms. Ray, are you an intervenor in the 4 case? 5 MS. RAY: No. 6 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. If you please 7 raise right your hand. 8 WHEREUPON, 9 PATTI RAY, 10 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 11 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 12 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 13 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 14 your name for the record. 15 MS. RAY: My name is Patti Ray, 16 P-A-T-T-I R-A-Y. I live at 102 Colonial Woods Drive 17 in Mount Vernon, Monroe Township. 18 JUDGE HICKS: Do you live or work 19 within the project area? 20 THE WITNESS: Not exactly. I live in 21 Morrow -- I mean, excuse me -- Knox County. 22 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 23 with your testimony. 24 DIRECT STATEMENT 25 THE WITNESS: I request that the Siting 35 1 Board approve the Frasier Solar project. I have been 2 a registered nurse for over 45 years, and the last 15 3 years of my career have been in public health and 4 disaster preparedness. 5 I have two points to make. Both of 6 them are about freedom. My first point, we need to 7 protect our fundamental American value: our private 8 property rights. 9 The landowner has the right to sell or 10 lease the land to whomever he chooses, even knowing 11 that it may never be restored to its former use or 12 beauty. 13 I come from Morrow County, and during 14 the oil boom of the 1960s, we even had an oil well in 15 our Methodist church parking lot. Our government 16 never prevented the farmers from leasing their land to 17 the oil and gas corporations in Knox County either. 18 I read that over 5,000 wells have been 19 drilled in Knox County since 1985. And across the 20 state, we have over 19,000 abandoned orphan wells 21 polluting our environment. 22 Thankfully, with the help of funding 23 from President Biden's infrastructure investment and 24 jobs act, we are going to be cleaning up those wells. 25 That includes the 14 wells here in Knox 36 1 County to protect our own health and safety, according 2 to our Knox County public health department. 3 Our local politicians want us to 4 believe that preventing solar power from coming to 5 Knox County is about protecting our farmlands. 6 The empowering America mission that 7 they support is really about protecting oil and gas 8 industry, as evidenced by the dark-money-funded event 9 in Mount Vernon last November 30th and the mail orders 10 that we all received in the mail just prior to the 11 election. 12 Natural gas has played a role in Knox 13 County since the 1900s, a large part through the Arial 14 Corporation and the Cooper Bessemer Manufacturing. 15 Knox Countians have benefited and so have our local 16 colleges from their philanthropy. 17 However, there is no reason that solar 18 cannot exist side by side with natural gas to create 19 more jobs and affordable energy for all of us. 20 If our elected local representatives 21 wanted to protect our farmland, why did they rezone 34 22 acres of pastural farmland to allow Rockford 23 Construction to build 496 units on Upper Gilchrist 24 Road right outside my bedroom window? 25 And now Lemmon Development has been 37 1 given the approval to build another 156 units on the 2 34 rolling farm acres just north of that. 3 Did they consider the dumpsters, the 4 noise, the traffic, the pollution of an additional 500 5 cars per day or the water runoff and the rising heat 6 from all the shingles and asphalt roads? 7 I would gladly live across the road 8 from a solar farm. I would still enjoy my view from 9 my house of the sunrise, the trees, and the horizon. 10 Solar panels no higher than 10 feet would be hidden by 11 landscaping but still provide a refuge for our 12 wildlife. 13 My second point, solar will indeed 14 serve the public interest. I believe we have a duty 15 to protect the health of our children and our 16 vulnerable populations like the elderly from the 17 serious consequences of dirty water and air. 18 And solar energy is clean energy, not 19 the gas from fracked shale as our politicians would 20 have you believe. Most of all, I believe that the 21 pollution from fossil fuels harms our unborn children, 22 causing damage that lasts a lifetime. 23 We should defend our freedom to create 24 clean energy from renewable resources like solar. I 25 support the Frasier Solar project. Thank you. 38 1 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 2 Any question from counsel? 3 Thank you for your testimony. 4 Up next is Linsey Kohlenburg, and on 5 deck is Barry Lester. 6 Ms. Kohlenburg, are you an intervenor 7 in the case? 8 MS. KOHLENBURG: I am not. 9 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. If you could 10 please raise your right hand. 11 WHEREUPON, 12 LINDSEY KOHLENBURG, 13 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 14 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 15 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 16 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 17 spell your name for the record. 18 THE WITNESS: My name is Lindsey, 19 L-I-N-D-S-E-Y, last name Kohlenburg, 20 K-O-H-L-E-N-B-U-R-G. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please provide 22 your address including the township. 23 THE WITNESS: Yes. I live at 4439 24 Township Road 75. That's Mount Gilead, 43338. And I 25 live in Mount Gilead West Township. 39 1 JUDGE HICKS: Do you live or work 2 within the project area? 3 THE WITNESS: I do not. 4 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 5 DIRECT STATEMENT 6 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 7 I appreciate you giving me the 8 opportunity to speak and for everyone to get a chance 9 to listen to my comments. I'm a lifelong resident of 10 Ohio. I grew up on a family dairy farm in Holmes 11 County just up the road from here. I am a retired 12 middle school teacher. 13 I'm working with a realtor -- a ReMax 14 realtor here in Mount Vernon to purchase a home. 15 We're getting close. As a future resident, I ask that 16 the siting board approve the Frasier Solar project. 17 Yes, we're -- all of us here have been 18 beneficiaries of the age of fossil fuels, my 19 generation particularly. But now we know better ways 20 to create some of the energy our communities need to 21 thrive long-range. 22 As a person of faith, I believe 23 pollution harms all of creation, causing damage that 24 lasts beyond our puny lifetimes. It must be our 25 responsibility to conserve the bountiful resources God 40 1 has given us. 2 Contaminated water, air pollution that 3 we can see, and greenhouse pollution we cannot see are 4 the consequences of burning fossil fuels, along with 5 our careless handling of the same. And I have a 6 reference here about methane leakage. 7 This pollution creates serious 8 consequences for the health of our precious local 9 ecosystem and the health and safety of our children 10 and other vulnerable populations. 11 Senior citizens like me and people with 12 chronic health conditions pay the highest price as a 13 result of these pollutants, and I have a reference for 14 that comment. 15 Farmers must find new ways to keep 16 farming in spite of the temperature and precipitation 17 anomalies that come with a warming climate. Stronger 18 storms, big hail events, and tornadoes add even more 19 risk to producers business models. I have a reference 20 for that. 21 Any time our own community, with the 22 help of local landowners, can produce clean 23 electricity, we're reducing pollution, reducing 24 greenhouse gas emissions, and giving our neighbors, 25 especially our children, the true gift of life. 41 1 I ask the Siting Commission to look at 2 the long-range benefits to this community. And I 3 believe polluting [sic] the Frasier Solar project 4 sites for clean solar power will help free our 5 children from further air, water, and greenhouse 6 pollution that comes with fossil-fuel-derived energy 7 as well as help sustain the other plant and animal 8 life with whom we share this special place. 9 Approval of the Frasier Solar project 10 defends our local freedom to create clean energy from 11 sunshine. Approval of the Frasier Solar project will 12 support the landowners' right to use their land for 13 this good purpose. Thank you. 14 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 15 And questions from counsel? 16 Mr. Van Kley? 17 CROSS-EXAMINATION 18 BY MR. VAN KLEY: 19 Q Just to be clear for the record, what county 20 do you live in currently? 21 A I live in Morrow County and I'm about to 22 purchase a home here, but it's not a done deal yet. 23 Q Yeah. So have you picked out a location in 24 this county? 25 A Yes. 42 1 Q Okay. How far from the project area is it? 2 A Well, it's in Mount Vernon -- Mount Vernon. 3 Q And within the city proper? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Okay. Thank you. 6 JUDGE HICKS: Any other questions from 7 counsel? 8 Thank you for your testimony. 9 MS. KOHLENBURG: Thank you. 10 JUDGE HICKS: Now up is Barry Lester, 11 and on deck is Andrew Davis. 12 Mr. Lester, are you an intervenor in 13 the case? 14 MR. LESTER: No, sir. 15 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 16 right hand. 17 WHEREUPON, 18 BARRY LESTER, 19 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 20 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 21 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 22 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 23 your name for the record. 24 THE WITNESS: Barry, B-A-R-R-Y, last 25 name Lester, L-E-S-T-E-R. 43 1 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please provide 2 your -- 3 THE WITNESS: I live at 767 Southridge 4 Drive, Mount Vernon, Ohio. And I live in Clinton 5 Township, which is affected by this. 6 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And just to -- so 7 you do live or work in the project area, just to 8 clarify for the record? 9 THE WITNESS: I do. 10 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 11 with your testimony. 12 DIRECT STATEMENT 13 THE WITNESS: First off, thanks for 14 coming. Thanks for the outpour of the community here. 15 I am the newly -- won the primary for 16 county commissioner here in Knox County. 17 If you look at the record for the 18 primary vote this year, those who oppose solar energy 19 versus those who are pro-solar energy, the vote 20 outcome was overwhelming: 70 percent of this county 21 did not want solar energy in our fields. 22 Throughout this campaign, I have 23 visited 18 of 22 townships. And I'm proud to say that 24 with the effort of other people involved, but my 25 personal visits, phone calls, we have 17 of 22 44 1 townships that have signed resolutions that want to be 2 exclusionary areas. And now the city proper of Mount 3 Vernon. 4 This solar was unknown until Preserve 5 Knox County started putting yellow signs up. Nobody 6 knew about it. It was slid in. A resolution was 7 signed, and then SB 52 came out. 8 Ironically, all these debates and 9 meetings I've attended, most of the people who oppose 10 it actually own farms. A lot of people who are for it 11 own houses in the city or not near the farms. 12 My question is, someday if this 13 overtakes you, how are you going to feel when you wake 14 up and there's a solar field right next to you? You 15 want that truly or not? 16 I have personally visited other 17 projects. It's a disaster. Personally go visit if 18 you have not. There's corrosion. 19 Now the thing that scares me is we're 20 going to have neighbors suing neighbors over home 21 devaluation, corrosion, runoff. Who knows what's 22 going to follow? We are not. 23 We are good stewards of this county and 24 the land that we own and we live in. We need to 25 understand that. We really need to fight that battle. 45 1 I will tell you that you need to take the passion back 2 that you see here this evening. 3 And without being recorded, it's up to 4 you, the people on the very stage that we're looking 5 at, to take the passion rather than transcripts back 6 to you to you -- to whoever is going to look further 7 into this. 8 I will leave with a couple things. 9 First off, I think it's very unfair that you are 10 weighting any testimony from anybody that does not 11 live in this county. This is a grassroot thing and a 12 county issue. 13 THE REPORTER: Excuse me. Excuse me. 14 JUDGE HICKS: Folks, please, we -- in 15 the interest of time -- and the court reporter cannot 16 get the testimony with background noise. 17 MR. LESTER: The other thing that I 18 would like for you to take into consideration is when 19 people give their testimony that they're for or 20 against solar, I would like to know if there has been 21 compensation and/or benefits that have not been given 22 yet but could be in the future -- 23 JUDGE HICKS: Please, folks. 24 MR. LESTER: -- other than paid 25 counsel. 46 1 I will stick to one word that I heard 2 the attorney say earlier. It's going to be great for 3 the union workers. And right of out his mouth he said 4 a Morrow County union worker can come to Knox County 5 and benefit. Where's the benefit for the Knox County 6 union worker if that's what we're looking for? 7 And then I'll leave with just a funny 8 thing. When's the last time anybody heard, "What's 9 for dinner?" "Sheetz for dinner." "No, not today." 10 Thank you. 11 JUDGE HICKS: Please, folks. 12 Any questions from counsel? 13 Thank you for your testimony. 14 Up next is Andrew Davis -- oh, I'm 15 sorry. 16 Mr. Lester? 17 You're slow on the draw there, Mr. 18 Settineri. 19 THE WITNESS: That's all right. 20 CROSS-EXAMINATION 21 BY MR. SETTINERI: 22 Q Mr. Lester, Mike Settineri on behalf of 23 Frasier Solar. 24 A I figured. 25 Q As a county commissioner, are you going to 47 1 base your decision only on passion? 2 A The what? 3 Q As a county commissioner, are you going to 4 base your decision only on passion? 5 A No, sir. I am very transparent in any 6 decision I make. But let me tell you what. When you 7 take passion out of decision, it can take you down the 8 wrong path. 9 You still have to use passion; you have to 10 use transparency to make those things -- you have to 11 be passionate about the decisions you make. Are you 12 passionate about the decisions you make for your 13 clients? 14 Q So you're going to be -- you're saying that 15 the board should consider passion amongst all other 16 factors? 17 A That is not what I said, sir. 18 Q All right. Let me ask this: did you review 19 the staff report issued in this proceeding? 20 A No, sir. 21 Q You did not? 22 A No, sir. 23 Q So you don't know that there are 60 24 conditions the staff has recommended? 25 A No, sir, I do not. 48 1 Q You don't know that some of those conditions 2 address decommissioning, bonding -- 3 A I do. 4 Q -- road protection. You're not aware of 5 that? 6 A I am aware of that. 7 Q But you didn't review the staff report? 8 A I did, absolutely. I wasn't familiar with 9 what you're referring to. I looked at it, and it 10 pretty much tells a great story. It flatlines with no 11 increase for inflation. The decommissioning is way 12 short in the future. 13 You're talking about 40 years ago. So give 14 me the real numbers at 40 years that show me -- not 15 flatline -- where does the decommissioning increase. 16 And it does not on the sheet that this young man has 17 brought to all the -- 18 Q So you're also aware that there are 19 conditions related to restoration of soil at the 20 project -- 21 A I do. I did. I do understand also that 22 you're putting pillars in the ground. You can scrape 23 the soil and pile it and any farmer in here will come 24 up here and tell you the soil will never be the same 25 once you do that. You have to -- 49 1 Q And you're against sheep grazing, I take it? 2 A I'm sorry? 3 Q You're against sheep grazing? 4 A No. No. I am against turning a cropland or 5 a grazing field into a solar field with sheep grazing 6 under it. That's not agriculture. When did solar 7 become agriculture, because you're farming sunshine? 8 Come on. 9 Q So you're okay with this facility or this 10 land to be used for sheep grazing but only sheep 11 grazing? 12 A Absolutely. 13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Why didn't you 14 cross-examine the other people? 15 JUDGE HICKS: Folks, please. If you 16 have something to say, you can sign up to testify. 17 THE WITNESS: Here's the thing. I know 18 that you're a educated man and I am not. I came up 19 the school of hard knocks. I was born and raised in 20 this county. I've seen farm my whole life. 21 Where are we going to get food? Where 22 are we going to get crops? Where are we going to get 23 dairy if it is solar? I'm asking you. You're a 24 professional, educated man. 25 BY MR. SETTINERI: 50 1 Q And I'm the one asking the questions. 2 A Yeah, well, I can ask back apparently, if 3 I'm being -- 4 JUDGE HICKS: No. Sir, the questions 5 are coming from Mr. Settineri. 6 BY MR. SETTINERI: 7 Q Let me ask this: For this land, do you 8 prefer to stay in agriculture, or would you prefer to 9 see in residential subdivisions? 10 A So I'll state that I think that I am not of 11 sprawling. I don't think that anybody ought to be ten 12 acres of land, put 20 houses on it. 13 But I think there's room for industry, which 14 we desperately need here in this county. And we also 15 need affordable housing in this county, which we do 16 not have. So I will ask you, would you'd rather 17 see -- am I allowed to ask questions? 18 JUDGE HICKS: No, the questions come 19 from Mr. Settineri. 20 THE WITNESS: Okay. So I guess I will 21 hush. 22 MR. SETTINERI: All right. No further 23 questions, Your Honor. 24 Thank you, Mr. Lester. 25 THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir. I'll be 51 1 glad to continue in the lobby, if -- 2 JUDGE HICKS: I think there's another 3 question. I will just caveat here, Mr. Van Kley, 4 we're not looking for friendly cross. So -- 5 MR. VAN KLEY: Okay. I just have a 6 clarification question. 7 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. 8 CROSS-EXAMINATION 9 BY MR. VAN KLEY: 10 You mentioned in your testimony that it was 70 11 percent were opposed to a facility and 20 percent in 12 favor. Is that what you said? 13 A The voting shows that. If you -- there's 14 township trustees here tonight that will speak, and 15 they had open forums. 16 And I am probably heavy by saying 20 or 30 17 percent at their open forums that were for. It was 18 probably 90/10 in all actuality. 90 percent in their 19 open forums absolutely did not want. 20 MR. VAN KLEY: Okay. Thank you. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 22 Up now is Andrew Davis; on deck is 23 Angely Herrera Davis. 24 Mr. Davis, are you an intervenor in the 25 case? 52 1 MR. DAVIS: I am not. 2 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 3 right hand. 4 WHEREUPON, 5 ANDREW DAVIS, 6 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 7 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 8 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 9 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 10 your name for the record. 11 THE WITNESS: A-N-D-R-E-W D-A-V-I-S. 12 JUDGE HICKS: And could you please 13 provide your address including township if any. 14 THE WITNESS: 111 North Catherine 15 Street, Mount Vernon, Ohio. And it is Monroe 16 Township. 17 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 18 in the project area? 19 THE WITNESS: I do not. 20 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 21 with your testimony. 22 DIRECT STATEMENT 23 THE WITNESS: Thank you for the chance 24 to talk about something that could really make a 25 difference in our town. We stand at a crossroads with 53 1 the chance to welcome an all-American business that 2 seeks not just to set up shop but to invest in our 3 community, to contribute to our prosperity. 4 How could we, in good conscience, turn 5 them away? Across Ohio, coal plants are reaching the 6 end of their useful life and shutting down. Luckily, 7 we can replace them with a more affordable, efficient, 8 and cleaner solar energy alternatives. 9 If we turn away from this opportunity, 10 we will not only miss out on the benefits solar power 11 brings, but we'll also find ourselves reliant on power 12 sources from other counties or states, places that had 13 the foresight to embrace what we might reject. 14 I've personally seen the savings solar 15 can bring. My electricity bill dropped nearly half 16 after I switched to a solar electricity supplier. 17 Yeah. From 11 cents down to 6 cents per kilowatt. It 18 made me think, "Why not keep that money for our 19 community?" 20 Honestly, who likes the idea of paying 21 more for dirty energy when you could have cleaner air 22 and cheaper bills? Solar power is the cheapest form 23 of electricity today. It is good for our wallets and 24 great for our air. 25 Now, about our farmland. This solar 54 1 project uses something called agrivoltaics. It's a 2 simple idea. Our farms stay farms, and they get even 3 better. The plan includes growing native plants and 4 having sheep around to help improve the soil. So we 5 are not losing farmland; we're enhancing it. 6 I know there's been some confusion 7 about solar power. But think about it. Our schools 8 and town could see millions in funding from this 9 project. We shouldn't miss out because of a 10 misinformation campaign against solar. 11 I believe in the value of buying local. 12 Supporting our local farmers and the businesses that 13 are the backbone of our community. Imagine a future 14 where our electricity too comes from a local source, a 15 future where our town benefits from cleaner energy, 16 and yes, lower energy bills as a result. 17 So here's the bottom line. The solar 18 project isn't about clean energy; it's about bringing 19 our town together, investing in our future, and yes, 20 saving some money along the way. 21 Let's make a choice that benefits all 22 of us, both today and tomorrow. Let's not let this 23 chance slip us by. Thank you for listening. Let's 24 make a decision we can all be proud of. 25 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 55 1 Any questions from counsel? 2 CROSS-EXAMINATION 3 BY MR. VAN KLEY: 4 Q Did you discuss your testimony that you gave 5 tonight with Open Roads or Frasier Solar? 6 A No, did not. 7 Q Okay. Have you had any contact with them? 8 A Just in passing. I know I've -- 9 Q Okay. Like, say hello? 10 A Yeah, like today. 11 Q They didn't solicit your testimony tonight? 12 A No. 13 Q Okay. How far is your residence from the 14 project area? 15 A So I live downtown Mount Vernon, just down 16 the street here. 17 Q Okay. So how many miles would you say the 18 solar project is going to be from your residence? 19 A I believe part of the project is in Mount 20 Vernon proper, so pretty close, within walking 21 distance of my house. 22 Q Okay. Would you be able to see it from your 23 house? 24 A No. 25 MR. VAN KLEY: Okay. Thank you. 56 1 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you for your 2 testimony. One more question. 3 CROSS-EXAMINATION 4 BY MR. WIEGEL: 5 Q Just to clarify, you said you switched your 6 home energy bill to a solar company? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Do you know where that solar company is 9 located? 10 A Sure. It is 100 percent renewable from 11 Shipley Energy. 12 Q And do you know where their solar fields 13 are? 14 A So the company is located in Pennsylvania. 15 Q In Pennsylvania. So not necessarily the 16 solar panels going in Knox County. That energy could 17 be shipped out to Pennsylvania? 18 A Yeah. 19 Q Okay. Thank you. 20 A I'd like to get the savings, you know, in 21 our county. 22 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 23 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 24 JUDGE HICKS: Up next is Angely Herrera 25 Davis, and on deck is Gary Houser. 57 1 Are you an intervenor in the case? 2 MS. DAVIS: No. 3 JUDGE HICKS: Please raise your right 4 hand. 5 WHEREUPON, 6 ANGELY HERRERA DAVIS, 7 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 8 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 9 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 10 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 11 your name for the record. 12 THE WITNESS: Angely Herrera Davis, 13 A-N-G-E-L-Y H-E-R-R-E-R-A D-A-V-I-S. 14 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And could you 15 please provide your address including the township. 16 THE WITNESS: 111 North Catherine 17 Street, Mount Vernon, Ohio 43050, Monroe Township. 18 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 19 within the project area? 20 THE WITNESS: No. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 22 DIRECT STATEMENT 23 THE WITNESS: I stand before you as a 24 dog-mom, scientist, and writer, who calls Mount 25 Vernon, Ohio, her home. A scientist who supports 58 1 solar and who supports this project. Science is truth 2 quantified. 3 People can jab all they want, but facts 4 make sense of the chaos around us, and the truth about 5 what's happening underneath each solar panel is one of 6 hope. A place for our local wildlife to call home. 7 Even though we tried to erase wildlife 8 out of our lives by cutting down their habitats, 9 replacing their sources of nectar with lawns, and 10 pushing them as far away from our homes as possible, 11 they are still here because this is their home too. 12 I reviewed the planting plans for the 13 840-acre area that will make the Frasier Solar 14 project. As someone who finds peace in her pollinator 15 garden, I hope that these 840 acres would bring others 16 peace as well. 17 Mother nature doesn't like to be naked, 18 and protecting the soil from surface erosion and 19 helping develop a healthy and strong soil structure on 20 this property is a top priority for Frasier Solar. 21 There are seven species of plants on 22 this planting plan that are 100 percent native to 23 Mount Vernon, Ohio. How long have they called Mount 24 Vernon, Ohio, their home? Thousands of years. 25 If anyone can call this land home, it's 59 1 these native plants and the wildlife who evolved 2 together with them. 172 species of native butterflies 3 and moths use these seven species as caterpillar host 4 plants. 5 And this doesn't even begin to touch on 6 the birds, bees, and other wildlife who rely on these 7 plants. 8 Out of all these plants, common 9 milkweed stands out to me. This is a host plant for 10 the monarch butterfly. We are lucky enough to fall 11 along her migration path for spring and summer. 12 She spends the winter in Mexico, but in 13 the springtime decides that Mount Vernon, out of all 14 places, sounds like a good town to have a drink, 15 settle down, and raise her young. 16 While she may not have an opinion on 17 how ugly solar panels may be, she definitely has 18 something to say about whether there's a place to stay 19 and good food to eat. 20 We have the choice to be good hosts or 21 bad hosts to this beautiful creature and honor the 22 fact that we could provide many acres of home for her. 23 I currently work as a writer who helps 24 rural communities plan how they will give back to the 25 community with the money that clean energy brings in. 60 1 These rural communities resonate with 2 me because they know what their neighbors need and 3 they vouch for making sure that their community 4 receives benefits, whether it's scholarships, a new 5 park, more jobs, you name it. 6 They want that clean energy money to go 7 back into their town, and they don't get caught up in 8 fearful propaganda that stops them from funding the 9 future of their people. 10 Now Mount Vernon isn't considered a 11 rural area because we've got suburbs and everything in 12 this town is only a country song away. I know; I've 13 timed it. But what I've gathered from living here is 14 that we care about each other and know what we need. 15 So it surprises me to see that we are 16 saying no to $48.2 million for Knox County, no to $19 17 million for Mount Vernon City schools, no to $2.8 18 million for developmental disabilities, and no to $3.4 19 million for the Knox County Career Center, just to 20 name a few areas. 21 Communities fear what they do not know, 22 but darkness also thrives on fear. And as Christian, 23 I choose to follow the path that leads to hope for our 24 community. And to me, driving by a solar field that 25 brings jobs, money to our community, and a home for 61 1 butterflies, gives me more hope than an empty 2 cornfield. 3 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 4 Any questions from counsel? 5 Thank you for your testimony. 6 Up now is Gary Houser, and on deck is 7 Kathy Gamble. 8 Mr. Houser, are you an intervenor in 9 the case? 10 MR. HOUSER: No, I'm not. 11 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 12 right hand. 13 WHEREUPON, 14 GARY HOUSER, 15 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 16 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 17 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 18 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 19 spell your name for the record. 20 THE WITNESS: Gary Houser, G-A-R-Y 21 H-O-U-S-E-R. 22 JUDGE HICKS: You may want to push the 23 mic up just a little. 24 THE WITNESS: Yeah. How's that? 25 JUDGE HICKS: Perfect. If you could 62 1 please provide your address. 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. I think there was a 3 mistake made. I need to correct my address. I 4 entered the address for the organization that I'm 5 representing as a volunteer. If you want my home 6 address -- 7 JUDGE HICKS: You can go ahead and 8 provide your address for the court reporter now. 9 THE WITNESS: Okay. All right. May I 10 start now? 11 JUDGE HICKS: Provide your address for 12 the court reporter now. 13 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. It's 29 Atkins 14 Street, Glouster, Ohio. It's Trimble Township. 15 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 16 within the project area? 17 THE WITNESS: No, I don't. 18 JUDGE HICKS: Please go ahead with your 19 testimony. 20 DIRECT STATEMENT 21 THE WITNESS: I'd like to start by 22 saying I'm a Franciscan. I'm here because it is my 23 belief that God's earthly creation is a sacred gift, 24 and all Christians have a deep moral responsibility to 25 be good stewards of that gift and to protect it from 63 1 harm. 2 I'm not here to preach. But I just 3 share that because it's the reason why I am here 4 attending this hearing. 5 And I'd like to address the issue 6 allowing people to take part in these hearings who do 7 not necessarily live in Knox County. I know many 8 people in the city of Columbus who are extremely 9 concerned about this issue. 10 And I'd like for people who are not 11 aware of this fact to know that three years ago, the 12 city of Columbus voted on a ballot measure which 13 passed overwhelmingly, by 75 percent of the citizens 14 in Columbus, requiring the City to provide 100 percent 15 of its electrical needs from clean renewable sources 16 within a certain number of years. 17 That passed overwhelmingly. The city 18 of Columbus is now under a legal mandate to find 19 sources of clean, green energy within the central Ohio 20 region. 21 And so the people of Columbus who voted 22 on that ballot measure and approved it overwhelmingly 23 also are involved in this issue of the Frasier Solar 24 farm. It is not exclusively a Knox County issue. 25 The people of Columbus voted, and it is 64 1 the will of those people that the city find as many 2 solar farm opportunities as possible so they can 3 supply. And a city the size of Columbus, you can 4 imagine the size of that electrical need. It's huge. 5 And so that is another issue that's 6 very real and operating in conjunction with what's 7 happening here in Knox County. 8 I've seen a lot of concern expressed 9 about losing the agricultural use of land. And some 10 see this as a stewardship issue. I understand that 11 concern. 12 But as of March 8th, something very new 13 is happening. There is now an agreement between Open 14 Road Renewables and New Slate Land management to 15 institute a dual use of the site such that a full 800 16 of the 840 total acres are going to be designated for 17 sheep grazing. 18 This scale would make it one of the 19 largest sheep grazing operations in the state. Knox 20 County at one time was one of the leading areas for 21 sheep grazing east of the Mississippi River. Some 22 people probably know that history well. 23 This would be an opportunity to regain 24 some of that stature. Sheep grazers today are running 25 into much difficulty gaining access to land because of 65 1 cost. 2 But the combination on land being 3 developed for solar is a perfect match. Not only do 4 grazers gain that access, but the soil is going to be 5 maintained in a very healthy condition by the growth 6 of vibrant vegetation for the sheep to forage. 7 So I believe my question to the 8 opponents is a fair one. Since this step that will 9 keep the entire site in agricultural use was taken on 10 March 8th, why are the same claims continuing to be 11 made, right up to the date of this hearing, that this 12 solar project is going to take away such agricultural 13 use? 14 I'm honestly at a loss to understand 15 that. There's a new reality here that the opponents 16 don't seem to be accepting as having happened. A 17 contract has been signed that will maintain the 18 agricultural use of this land. 19 Why does the opposition continue to 20 press this case when this shift actually resolves the 21 very concern they were expressing? 22 And I would like to add, to the members 23 of the Siting Board, I actual -- I'm involved in video 24 production. And I produced a video specifically to 25 show what it would look like to have sheep grazing on 66 1 the Frasier Solar site. And I found out that that 2 would not be allowed at this hearing. 3 I'd like to ask members of the board to 4 consider for the future, that sometimes the video 5 medium can be very educational, can illuminate issues 6 for both sides of the issue in a way that I think 7 would be helpful. And I would ask that a modification 8 to that rule be made. 9 So if somebody provides all of their 10 own -- 11 JUDGE HICKS: Mr. Houser, I'm going 12 to -- your five minutes have hit. 13 THE WITNESS: Okay. 14 We are going to need to strictly 15 enforce that. One moment. 16 Any questions from Counsel? 17 Mr. Van Kley?/ 18 CROSS-EXAMINATION 19 BY MR. VAN KLEY: 20 Q What is your county of residence? 21 A The county is Athens County. 22 Q Okay. You're a little ways from home. 23 A Yeah. I can speak to that if you allow me. 24 Q No, it's okay. So you were talking about 25 the city of Columbus voting to have their power 67 1 produced by renewable energy; right? 2 A Right. 3 Q Are any of the solar facilities that are 4 providing the renewable energy to Columbus located 5 within the city of Columbus borders? 6 A They don't have the amount of space that 7 would allow for that. 8 Q Yeah. So the city of Columbus voters voted 9 to have electricity produced by solar farms in rural 10 communities outside Columbus; correct? 11 A Because that's the only place that has the 12 physical space. 13 Q Yeah. So the city of Columbus is relying on 14 renewable energy produced at facilities that they 15 don't have to live with; right? 16 A Well, if you would allow me to answer that 17 question -- the assumption behind that -- 18 MR. VAN KLEY: Your Honor, I'd like the 19 witness -- 20 THE WITNESS: The assumption behind the 21 ballot measure is that the consequences of the climate 22 crisis do not end at the border of Knox County. It is 23 a crisis of such a magnitude it transcends county 24 borders, transcends state borders, transcends national 25 borders. 68 1 If there was ever an issue that 2 humanity face that was saying to us that we are all in 3 this together, it is the climate crisis. 4 And so therefore, the assumption is 5 that yes, we all need to pull together here in central 6 Ohio and address this issue in a responsible way. And 7 the most responsible way that has come along now is 8 dual use of the solar farm site. 9 And this solar developer here in Knox 10 County has now come forward with a very solid proposal 11 and a agreement to continue the agricultural use on 12 this site. 13 BY MR. VAN KLEY: 14 Q Okay. But the people in the city of 15 Columbus don't have to wake up in the morning and look 16 through their windows at solar panels, do they? 17 A Well, they may have them in their own 18 backyard. I don't know that. 19 Q Maybe one or two in their backyard? 20 A Yeah. 21 Q Would they have to look outside of their 22 windows at hundreds of acres of solar panels every 23 morning when they get up? 24 A Well, again, if you allow me to answer -- 25 Q -- answer my questions. Can you answer my 69 1 question? 2 A Well, but your assumption is -- is that this 3 is somehow an impeachment on them to have to look out 4 at solar panels. And I'm saying it's a far greater 5 impingement on the people who will be suffering from 6 hunger 50 years from now if the climate crisis goes 7 unabated. 8 The scientific consensus is that there will 9 be massive increases in drought. There will be 50 10 million more hungry people on the planet by the middle 11 of the century. 12 I say that's a greater impingement on the 13 rights of those people for survival on this planet 14 than whether we're looking out a field of solar 15 panels. 16 Q Well, what about the city of -- 17 JUDGE HICKS: Mr. Van Kley, I'm going 18 to -- I think you made your point here. We need to 19 keep things moving. 20 MR. VAN KLEY: Okay. Very good. Thank 21 you, Your Honor. 22 JUDGE HICKS: Up next is Kathy Gamble, 23 and on deck is Beth Bartley. 24 Ms. Gamble, are you an intervenor in 25 the case? 70 1 MS. GAMBLE: No, sir. 2 JUDGE HICKS: Okay Please raise your 3 right hand. 4 WHEREUPON, 5 KATHY GAMBLE, 6 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 7 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 8 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 9 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 10 spell your name for the record. 11 THE WITNESS: Kathy, K-A-T-H-Y, Gamble, 12 G-A-M-B-L-E. 13 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Could you please 14 provide your address with any township? 15 THE WITNESS: 16434 Murray Road, Mount 16 Vernon, Ohio, Pleasant Township. 17 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 18 within the project area? 19 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure. 20 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. 21 THE WITNESS: I'll explain. 22 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 23 with your testimony. 24 THE WITNESS: I'm just over the line in 25 Pleasant Township from Miller. 71 1 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. 2 THE WITNESS: I'm two miles, so I'm not 3 whether I'm in the area or not. But I'm real close. 4 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go. 5 THE WITNESS: I also own property in 6 Clinton Township, but I don't live there. 7 JUDGE HICKS: Please proceed. 8 DIRECT STATEMENT 9 THE WITNESS: I'm a lifetime resident 10 of Knox County with family going back to 1818. I grew 11 up on a poultry farm. I currently live in Pleasant 12 Township where I've resided for 46 years. 13 I'm retired from the Ohio State 14 University Extension in Knox County. Prior to my work 15 with OSU, I was employed by the Ohio Farm Bureau 16 Federation in Knox and Holmes County. I worked in 17 support of the agriculture community for nearly 40 18 years. 19 I want to begin, briefly, by covering 20 my feelings about private property rights. Frasier 21 Solar project is leased from private property owners. 22 It's their right to use their land as they see fit as 23 long as it doesn't threaten the health and safety of 24 their neighbors. 25 I've read numerous studies from the 72 1 Ohio Department of Health and North Carolina 2 Department of Health, various universities, a variety 3 of medical associations, and have found no health 4 risks from the solar panels low level EMFs or the 5 underground wires. 6 And I have references here. But for 7 the sake of time, I won't go into that. 8 Back to the private property rights. 9 They are constitutional rights. And in our 10 capitalistic system, anyone who owns property is 11 entitled to any value associated with that property. 12 But Frasier Solar would not only serve the landowners, 13 but everyone's interest. 14 The entire Knox County community would 15 be served by the tax benefits, the payment in lieu of 16 taxes. There'd be over 286,000 annually that would go 17 to the Knox County General Fund. The Mount Vernon 18 city schools would benefit from a little over 488,000 19 annually. 20 And that money does not negatively 21 impact the school's state funding formulas. The pilot 22 is purely additive and insulates the school from 23 changing valuations in local incomes. 24 The remainder of the 1.1 million annual 25 income would go to other taxing bodies. Another way 73 1 Frasier serves the interest of Knox County in Ohio is 2 during the construction period. Hundreds of jobs will 3 be created and 70 percent of those jobs are required 4 to be filled by Ohio workers. 5 Recently, Frasier Solar has signed a 6 letter of intent with a Knox County-based company, New 7 Slate Land Management, to use sheep grazing for 8 vegetation management at the project site, thus 9 creating jobs for local sheep farmers. 10 The jobs and agriculture production 11 from the sheep grazing at Frasier will generate -- 12 would be a boost to our local economy. 13 Sheep grazing on solar farms can be an 14 economic triple win, generating income from three 15 revenue systems: leasing out the land for panel 16 installation, grazing contracts with local shepherds, 17 and agriculture products produced by the sheep, such 18 as lamb meat. 19 Ohio in-state generation does not meet 20 consumer demand. It doesn't now, and demand is only 21 going to increase. Ohio typically imports about 22 one-fifth to one-fourth of electricity it needs each 23 year from other states and Canada by way of the grid. 24 Energy produced by Frasier will be 25 supplied into the transmission system and used locally 74 1 and regionally. Not only will Knox County benefit, 2 but all of Ohio will benefit from Frasier Solar 3 project because it will be clean, locally generated 4 electricity. 5 In closing, I want to thank you for the 6 opportunity to speak in favor of Frasier Solar. 7 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 8 Any questions from counsel? 9 CROSS-EXAMINATION 10 BY MR. WIEGEL: 11 Q Do you have any relationship with any 12 land -- anyone who is leasing land in the solar 13 project? 14 A I have a friend that is leasing land. Yes. 15 Q Okay. Are you receiving any benefit 16 directly or indirectly from his lease with Frasier? 17 A No. 18 MR. WIEGEL: Okay. Thank you. 19 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 20 Up next is Beth Bartley, and on deck is 21 Yancy Shaw. 22 MS. BARTLEY: My name is Beth Bartley. 23 JUDGE HICKS: Ms. Bartley, are you an 24 intervenor in the case? 25 MS. BARTLEY: Yes, I am. 75 1 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. We are going to 2 ask that you wait till those that are not intervenors 3 are able to testify, as we had said at the beginning. 4 So we are going to run through everyone that is not an 5 intervenor, and we'll circle back to you. 6 MS. BARTLEY: Okay. Why am I not 7 allowed to testify now? 8 JUDGE HICKS: This is the only 9 opportunity that non-intervenors have to provide 10 testimony, so we are going to let them get through 11 first. You will have an opportunity to testify. 12 As I said at the beginning in my intro, 13 non-intervenors are going to get to go first. We will 14 circle back to any intervenors. 15 So up now will be Yancy Shaw, and on 16 deck is Jill, I believe, Grubb. My apologies if 17 that's wrong. 18 Mr. Shaw, are you an intervenor in the 19 case? 20 MR. SHAW: I am not. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 22 right hand. 23 // 24 // 25 // 76 1 WHEREUPON, 2 YANCY SHAW, 3 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 4 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 5 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 6 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 7 spell your name for the record. 8 THE WITNESS: Yancy Shaw, Y-A-N-C-Y 9 S-H-A-W. Home address, 7418 South State Route 231, 10 Tiffin, Ohio. Work address, 152 Dorchester Square, 11 Westerville, Ohio. 12 JUDGE HICKS: Do you live or work 13 within the project area? 14 THE WITNESS: I do not. 15 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 16 with your testimony. 17 DIRECT STATEMENT 18 THE WITNESS: I'm a member of the Ohio 19 Laborers, a representative of the Laborers' District 20 Council. And our expectations is to have our members 21 that live in this area and the state working to build 22 this project, along with keeping the maintenance of it 23 and all aspects of the solar field once it's in 24 operational. 25 Our members will make a good living 77 1 wage with top-notch benefits, pension benefits, 2 healthcare, all while contributing to the community. 3 The laborers also have Drexel J. Thrash Training 4 Center here in Knox County, out by Howard, Ohio. 5 We have 119 acres there that we train 6 our laborers all year long. Obviously, we have a 7 solar training class there. We have 40 full time 8 employees there that work year-round. 9 And we take, you know, thousands of our 10 members -- we have 16,000 members in the state. 11 Thousands of them go through the training center each 12 year. And so that is why we are in support of this 13 project. Thank you. 14 JUDGE HICKS: Any questions from 15 counsel? 16 Mr. Van Kley? 17 CROSS-EXAMINATION 18 BY MR. VAN KLEY: 19 Q What is your county of residence? 20 A Seneca. 21 Q Seneca? 22 A Yeah. 23 Q And with regard to the electricians that 24 come to work on solar projects such as this one, are 25 those electricians typically novices in their trade? 78 1 A I can't speak on behalf of an electrician. 2 Q Okay. What does your union do? 3 A We build anything we can: roads, bridges, 4 airports, solar field, pipeline. 5 Q Okay. I was wondering because you were 6 talking about how you train people for your trades. 7 And do you typically send people from your trades who 8 have just been trained in those trades to work on the 9 solar projects? 10 A Both, yes. 11 Q Okay. Thanks. 12 JUDGE HICKS: Up now is Jill Grubb, and 13 on deck is Erin Salva. 14 Ms. Grubb, are you an intervenor in the 15 case? 16 MS. GRUBB: No. What is an intervenor? 17 JUDGE HICKS: I'm going to take that as 18 a no. It's someone who has intervened to officially 19 participate as a party. If you could please raise 20 your right hand. 21 WHEREUPON, 22 JILL GRUBB, 23 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 24 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 25 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 79 1 JUDGE HICKS: Can you please state and 2 spell your name for the record? 3 THE WITNESS: J-I-L-L G-R-U-B-B. 4 JUDGE HICKS: And could you please 5 provide your address including any township. 6 THE WITNESS: 405 East Woodside Drive, 7 in the village of Gambier, Precinct 3. I don't know 8 what -- 9 JUDGE HICKS: May need to lean in just 10 a little closer to make. It may be hard to pick up. 11 And do you live or work within the 12 project area? 13 THE WITNESS: No. 14 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 15 DIRECT STATEMENT 16 THE WITNESS: Okay. I moved here nine 17 years ago from Morrow County where I was a teacher. 18 We got solar panels on our roof shortly after. 19 We couldn't afford it, but we did 20 because we have children and grandchildren and wanted 21 to change conditions because our country was being so 22 slow in addressing climate change. 23 My realm is beyond this area. It goes 24 to California and Colorado, where I have children and 25 grandchildren who have been faced with fires caused by 80 1 climate change. 2 I am for Frasier Solar. Banning solar 3 denies farmers their right to make their own decisions 4 for their use of land, period. 5 Two, the parties opposed to solar have 6 misrepresented the dangers. Their motives are 7 questionable. Many seem connected with housing 8 developments, not pristine farmland. 9 Furthermore, it is clear that animals 10 and solar panels do well together, as we see with 11 sheep and goats grazing near and under panels. Out 12 west, cattle graze under windmills. 13 Three, there is a glaring absence of 14 information on the use of fossil fuels. Carbon 15 dioxide and methane, which is 80 percent more 16 dangerous than carbon dioxide, are behind global 17 warming and air pollution, causing major harm 18 worldwide. 19 Fossil fuels were known to cause horrid 20 consequences decades ago by their own studies, which 21 were released in the 70s. But their advocates kept 22 pushing their products, raking in profits, and trying 23 to prevent cleaner alternatives. 24 Four, most important to me, my 25 grandchildren, your grandchildren, and the peoples of 81 1 the world are already experiencing mass fires, floods, 2 droughts, storms, rising and warming seas, melting 3 glaciers, changing wind and ocean currents, and 4 massive migrations by people who have to find livable 5 places. 6 That will affect all of us. Let us 7 actively support clean energy sources to preserve our 8 globe as stewards of the Earth. Thank you. 9 JUDGE HICKS: Any questions from 10 counsel? 11 Thank you for your testimony. 12 Up now is Erin Salva, and I apologize 13 if I mispronounce that. On deck is Janet Chandler. 14 Ms. Salva, are you an intervenor in the 15 case? 16 MS. SALVA: No, I am not. 17 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 18 right hand. 19 WHEREUPON, 20 ERIN SALVA, 21 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 22 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 23 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 24 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 25 spell your name for the record. 82 1 THE WITNESS: Erin, E-R-I-N, Salva, 2 S-A-L-V-A. And I live at 9301 Green Valley Road, 3 Mount Vernon. It's Wayne Township. 4 JUDGE HICKS: Do you live or work in 5 the project area? 6 THE WITNESS: No. 7 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 8 DIRECT STATEMENT 9 THE WITNESS: I reside on a small 10 family farm. I grew up in an urban area before moving 11 to Ohio in my late teens, and so I have a very deep 12 appreciation for agriculture, especially on small 13 family farms. 14 I'm a backyard beekeeper and a founding 15 member of the Knox County Community Garden Initiative. 16 For the past two years, I've been teaching students in 17 K6 classrooms about where their food comes from and 18 how to grow fruits and vegetables. 19 This is very rewarding work but also 20 frustrating as I see more and more rural farms in Knox 21 County being sold to developers for residential 22 housing developments. 23 Opponents of utility-scale solar farms 24 would have us believe that putting solar on farmland 25 threatens to reduce our agricultural land; however, 83 1 the single and largest cause of lost farmland is from 2 housing development, especially sprawl where single 3 homes are built on large tracts of prior farmland. 4 These housing developments take 5 farmland permanently out of agricultural production. 6 And once a solar project is decommissioned, however, 7 the land can be returned to agricultural use. 8 I was excited to learn that the Frasier 9 Solar project will be employing the agrivoltaics that 10 will use the sheep from nearby sheep farms in Knox 11 County. 12 This dual-use model involves solar 13 energy installations that provide agricultural land 14 beneath or between rows of photovoltaic cells and 15 panels. 16 Solar sites can also host honeybees 17 along with grazing sheep. Beekeeping at solar sites 18 can enhance the value of the land by keeping it in 19 agricultural production, providing new streams of 20 income for local farmers and adding environmental 21 benefits including enhanced soil health due to the 22 presence of native and non-invasive vegetation that 23 the project will be using to create natural perimeter 24 fencing and buffer zones around the sites. 25 Harvesting solar energy while grazing 84 1 sheep on solar sites can both help to maintain the 2 rural landscape and add additional income streams that 3 will help local farmers keep their farmland in 4 production. 5 The Frasier Solar project will be sited 6 on 840 acres of and on five different tracts. The 7 project's acreage totals just .6 percent of the 8 tillable farmland in Knox County. 9 Contrary to the opposition's claims 10 that farmland will be lost to solar developments, 11 these projects can preserve farmland by enabling small 12 family farmers to keep their farms intact and viable. 13 I'm an advocate of preserving farmland 14 in Knox County through dual-use solar installations 15 like the Frasier Solar project. I also support the 16 freedom and the rights of farmers who choose to engage 17 in sustainable land use that benefits their land. 18 Harvesting solar energy will both 19 generate alternative renewable energy and help local 20 farmers maintain their farms. This is clearly a 21 win-win that is in the best interest of the people of 22 Knox County. Thanks. 23 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 24 Any questions from counsel? 25 Thank you for your testimony. 85 1 Up now is Janet Chandler, and on deck 2 is Charles Bonsell. 3 Ms. Chandler, are you an intervenor in 4 the case? 5 MS. CHANDLER: I am not. 6 THE COURT: Okay. Please raise your right hand. 7 WHEREUPON, 8 JANET CHANDLER, 9 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 10 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 11 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 12 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 13 your name for the record. 14 THE WITNESS: Janet, J-A-N-E-T, 15 Chandler, C-H-A-N-D-L-E-R. 16 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please provide 17 your address including any township. 18 THE WITNESS: Yes. 16 Highland Drive 19 in Mount Vernon, Ohio. I'm in the city of Mount 20 Vernon. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And do you live or 22 work in the project area? 23 THE WITNESS: Well, I live in Mount 24 Vernon, so -- 25 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 86 1 with your testimony. 2 DIRECT STATEMENT 3 THE WITNESS: Sure. Good evening. 4 Thank you for your time and attention this evening. 5 I'm a resident of Mount Vernon. 6 I'm retired from the behavioral health 7 field, but since retirement, I became active as a Ohio 8 volunteer -- certified volunteer naturalist, and I've 9 been volunteering in the Knox County Park District for 10 the last five years. 11 So I'm speaking to you this evening 12 with concern for our environment in Knox County. I've 13 been following the proposed Frasier project for 14 several years. 15 I attended a couple of their required 16 public meetings. And last November, I also attended 17 the meeting held here sponsored by an opposition 18 group. 19 Because I care deeply about a healthy 20 environment, I was very alarmed to hear at that 21 meeting many of the opposition claims. Claims like 22 heavy metals would be leaching into our soil and water 23 honestly scared me. I wanted to learn more. 24 Well, I easily found a lot of the 25 claims on the internet that had been made at the 87 1 meeting. However, in digging down, I found that these 2 claims were not backed by credible sources or 3 reputable studies. 4 I realized that the opposition group at 5 this meeting had cherry-picked their information. 6 Their information was not comprehensive, nor was it 7 based in real science. The scenarios about solar that 8 they were promoting seemed to be designed not to 9 inform, but to make people frightened. 10 It had worked with me. And I'm 11 concerned that it seemed to be working with a lot of 12 my neighbors. 13 In further educating myself, I also 14 came to recognize that the issue of climate change is 15 central to this controversy. The opposition town hall 16 argued that human-caused climate change is a hoax. 17 But as you are undoubtedly aware, the 18 most recent IPCC report began with a statement: "Human 19 activities, principally through emissions of 20 greenhouse gases, have unequivocally caused global 21 warming." 22 Current estimates are that 97 to 99 23 percent of climate scientists, those scientists who 24 actually publish in reputable journals related to 25 climate, agree with this consensus. So clearly 88 1 climate change is a crisis. And if we are responsible 2 citizens, we will take action to address this crisis. 3 I thought that maybe community solar, 4 that is, solar on rooftops, parking lots, brown 5 fields, might be the answer. However, current 6 analysis indicates that if we are to meet our future 7 renewable energy needs, utility-scale solar is 8 essential. 9 Community solar alone is inadequate to 10 the task. And further, the cost of community solar is 11 two to four times more expensive than utility-scale 12 solar. 13 For these two reasons, we need to 14 support both utility-scale solar so that we are 15 ensuring both adequate electricity and ensuring that 16 we have electricity at a price that's affordable to 17 most everyone sitting in this room. 18 Despite how divided our community may 19 seem, I believe that we all can agree underneath that 20 the project should be required to have high health and 21 safety standards. 22 It is significant that the Siting Board 23 staff report clearly recognized these health, safety, 24 and environmental concerns, and that they've laid our 25 stringent conditions to ensure that these will be 89 1 addressed in the final contracts. 2 I encourage you, therefore, as siting 3 board members, to confirm the staff recommendation and 4 approve the project. Our community in the county will 5 have much to gain from this and future solar 6 development. 7 Why would we turn away additional 8 stable sources of funding for our schools and for 9 other services which strengthen our quality of life? 10 Why would we want to restrict the future amount of 11 electricity available or cause it to become more 12 expensive? 13 Why would we not support a project that 14 will keep the land in food production while generating 15 electricity? And why not confirm our shared value 16 that respects private property rights, especially when 17 this project will not harm our health or safety? 18 This project just makes a lot of common 19 sense. I would actually be very proud to be a citizen 20 in this community that demonstrates how it cares by 21 contributing in our own small ways to creating a 22 better world for our children and our grandchildren. 23 Thank you. 24 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. Perfectly 25 timed. 90 1 Any questions from counsel? 2 MR. SETTINERI: Quick question, Ms. 3 Chandler. 4 CROSS-EXAMINATION 5 BY MR. SETTINERI: 6 Q You mentioned for the record -- to clarify 7 an opposition group in your testimony a few times. Do 8 you know the name of that opposition group? 9 A I believe the one that sponsored the first 10 meeting that I was at that they called the town hall 11 was Knox Smart Development. 12 MR. SETTINERI: No further questions. 13 Thank you, Your Honor. 14 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 15 Thank you for your testimony. 16 Up now is Charles Bonsell, and on deck 17 is Sarah Goslee Reed. 18 Mr. Bonsell, are you an intervenor in 19 the case? 20 MR. BONSELL: No, I'm not. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please raise 22 your right hand. 23 // 24 // 25 // 91 1 WHEREUPON, 2 CHARLES BONSELL, 3 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 4 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 5 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 6 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 7 your name for the record. 8 THE WITNESS: Okay. Charles, 9 C-H-A-R-L-E-S, Bonsell, B-O-N-S-E-L-L. 10 JUDGE HICKS: Can you please provide 11 your address including any township. 12 THE WITNESS: 12561 Sycamore Road, 13 Mount Vernon. 14 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 15 in the project area? 16 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. It borders on 17 my property, the solar field and the easement for the 18 collector lines, a total of probably about a mile and 19 a half. 20 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 21 with your testimony. 22 DIRECT STATEMENT 23 THE WITNESS: My family and I operate a 24 multi-generational farm in Miller Township. Our 25 property has been in the same family for 190 years, 92 1 thus my passion for the land has very deep roots. 2 As is the case with many farmers across 3 the country, we have been offered the opportunity to 4 lease our farm to the solar industry. Additionally, 5 we have been asked to sign a good neighbor agreement 6 for an adjacent farm which has already been leased to 7 a solar vendor. 8 Thus far, we have not leased our farm 9 to any solar vendor, nor signed the good neighbor 10 agreement. 11 I'm a firm believer of personal 12 property rights. This includes respecting a fellow 13 landowner's choice to lease his land, providing he is 14 compliance with local zoning regulations, acts 15 reasonably, and acts lawfully. 16 Any landowner who has decided to -- he 17 wants solar has likely thought the decision through in 18 detail and determined that the plan to be is the best 19 path forward for his family. 20 If you deny the current solar project 21 to go forward, you're denying the property rights of 22 the landowner. Many large companies are desperately 23 trying to find renewable energy sources and many have 24 set schedules for transitioning away from fossil 25 fuels. 93 1 The Clean Energy Buyer's Association, 2 or CEBA, has 400 large customers who have vowed to 3 make the switch. There is a large demand for solar 4 energy. Our neighbors at Intel have repeatedly made 5 the same claim and may even be a member of CEBA. 6 My family and I hope you board members 7 will make decisions independently, based on thoroughly 8 researching the issues involved, and make the right 9 long-term decision for Ohio. 10 Obviously, there is a lot of 11 misinformation circulating about solar. The solar 12 opposition is well funded by folks in competing 13 industries. The loudest and strongest players in 14 these types of forums are not always on the right side 15 of issues. 16 Given your high standing and wide 17 authority, we are depending on you to use good 18 judgment in this critical decision. Your decision 19 needs to be based on accurate, hard, and indisputable 20 facts. 21 Change is never easy, nor embraced. 22 But leaders are expected to take the high road and do 23 what is best for the long run. This case and others 24 like it coming up will probably be the most important 25 decisions your tenure on the Ohio Power Siting Board. 94 1 Your decisions will deeply influence 2 many lives and impact Ohio's power systems for years 3 to come. Thank you for your time. 4 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 5 Any questions from counsel? 6 Go ahead. 7 CROSS-EXAMINATION 8 BY MR. WIEGEL: 9 Q Just to clarify, you said you were an 10 adjacent property owner? 11 A Yes, I do. 12 Q How many acres do you own personally? 13 A Just 200. 14 Q Two-hundred? Do you have any easements for 15 the property on your -- 16 A No. No. We have signed nothing, as I 17 stated in this. 18 Q But did you testify that Frasier and Open 19 Roads asked to -- 20 A Yes, they did. Yes, they did. 21 Q How much money did they offer you? 22 A How much what? Money -- 23 Q How much money per acre did they offer you? 24 A I'm not sure that I want to answer that. Is 25 that -- 95 1 Q How much money per acre did they offer you? 2 A It was good. 3 Q How much money per acre did they offer you? 4 MR. SETTINERI: At this time, I would 5 object that it be confidential. 6 JUDGE HICKS: There may be -- I'm 7 not -- 8 THE REPORTER: I'm sorry. If you want 9 to make an objection, can you please come up to the 10 microphone so I can get it on record? 11 MR. SETTINERI: Your Honor, we 12 object -- that information to be confidential. 13 MR. WIEGEL: We would argue he didn't 14 sign anything, and he testified that he was offered 15 the lease. 16 JUDGE HICKS: The bench is not aware of 17 what may have been signed, discussed, anything. 18 You've asked the question; he's provided an answer. 19 Let's try to -- you can ask him again and then we'll 20 move on. 21 BY MR. WIEGEL: 22 Q So this is your testimony that you don't 23 want to tell -- 24 A Don't want to lease. 25 Q Well, you don't want to disclose how much 96 1 you were offered per acre to lease your land to 2 Frasier Solar. 3 A I don't think that's a good question, 4 really. And that -- granted, I didn't sign. But I'm 5 not going to answer that. 6 MR. WIEGEL: Okay. 7 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 8 Mr. Van Kley? 9 CROSS-EXAMINATION 10 BY MR. VAN KLEY: 11 Q Just to be clear then, have you informed the 12 solar company that you will not sign under any 13 circumstances, or are you still negotiating with them? 14 A I'm not negotiating with them. And I made 15 it pretty clear that at this point in time I'm not 16 interested in leasing. 17 Q Okay. "At this point in time," does that 18 mean in the future you may be interested in signing 19 with them? 20 A It could be. But probably not. I -- it 21 really didn't fit into my plans, really, with the 22 property. It was going to take up my hay ground. And 23 a lot of my ground is best suited for grazing. 24 And with the loss of that, it would 25 interfere with running cattle on the proper 'cause I 97 1 wouldn't have enough hay. So that was really the 2 reason. They wanted to lease about a half of my 3 property, which was the remote part of the property. 4 But it was going to take my hay ground, like I said. 5 Q Okay. So they wanted to purchase a lease to 6 put some soar equipment on your property? 7 A Solar panels. Yes. 8 Q Okay. Have they offered an agreement in 9 which they would pay you money in exchange for your 10 either supporting the project or agreeing not to 11 oppose the project? 12 A They offered the good neighbor agreement, 13 and there was compensation for that. That's correct. 14 Q Did you sign that? 15 A No, I did not. 16 Q Do you intend to? 17 A Not at this point in time. I don't see a 18 need to. 19 JUDGE HICKS: Mr. Van Kley, I think we 20 are treading ground that has already been answered 21 here. So please -- 22 MR. VAN KLEY: Thank you. 23 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 24 Up now is Sarah Goslee Reed, and on 25 deck is Joe Lennon. 98 1 Ms. Reed, are you an intervenor in the 2 case? 3 MS. REED: I am not. 4 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Could you please 5 raise your right hand. 6 WHEREUPON, 7 SARAH GOSLEE REED, 8 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 9 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 10 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 11 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 12 spell your name for the record. 13 THE WITNESS: My name is Sarah, 14 S-A-R-A-H, Goslee, G-O-S-L-E-E, Reed, R-E-E-D. 15 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please provide 16 your address with any township? 17 THE WITNESS: 1102 New Gambier Road. 18 That's Mount Vernon. And we are a little bit, I 19 guess, in Pleasant Township. 20 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 21 in the project area? 22 THE WITNESS: I do not. 23 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 24 DIRECT STATEMENT 25 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 99 1 Good evening. Thank you very much for 2 allowing us to speak today. I have been a resident of 3 Knox County since 1984. As human beings on Earth, we 4 are all consumers. It is nearly impossible to avoid 5 having a carbon footprint. 6 I believe it is my responsibility and 7 obligation to preserve this planet in such a condition 8 that it provides my children, grandchildren, and 9 future generations beyond with clean water for 10 drinking and swimming; with pesticide- and 11 herbicide-free food for healthy eating; and with 12 unpolluted air for filling their lungs so they can 13 explore our world's forest and oceans full of a rich 14 variety of wildlife. 15 Because of this philosophy, my year ago 16 my husband and I installed 20 solar panels on our roof 17 with the idea of lowering our carbon footprint and of 18 making our house more appealing to the next owner. 19 We now have an electric bill that is 20 one-fourth of what it was previously, and today the 21 bill I received was for $2.95 for the past month. 22 Even on cloudy days, our solar panels 23 generate electricity, and we often have a negative 24 kilowatt-hour usage, meaning that we are putting more 25 power into the grid than we are using. 100 1 It is quiet and efficient, and it seems 2 almost silly to me to not take advantage of the sun 3 and the energy it offers. Commercial solar power 4 provides another opportunity for all of our 5 descendants to have the above-mentioned quality of 6 life. 7 Farmers are often paid by the 8 government to not plant their fields. Over time, the 9 land may lie unused and unproductive. Farmers do have 10 the right to decide how their land is used. 11 With Frasier Solar, this land can be 12 utilized to produce energy for the power grid, making 13 the land more valuable. Frasier Solar's policy is 14 that sheep graze on that land, benefitting from the 15 shade the panels provide and, in the process, 16 fertilize it and improve the soil. 17 The soil panels can only be located 18 where there is access to transmission lines and only a 19 small amount, about one-half of one percent, of our 20 county's farmland would be utilized in this fashion. 21 Farmers sign a 40-year lease with 22 Frasier Solar, and when that least expires, the panel 23 and equipment are removed and the land goes back into 24 production, fertilized by the sheep and conditioned to 25 produce better crops. 101 1 Farms across the state and county are 2 being permanently lost or diminished due to 3 development. But through partnership with Frasier 4 Solar, the farm remains. 5 I frequently drive into neighboring 6 communities, to Grandville and to Chillicothe in 7 southern Ohio. And I see solar panels on the edges of 8 these towns. I think to myself, what smart, 9 progressive people live here. And I know Knox County 10 is just as smart and just as progressive. 11 Please show me that I am right by 12 protecting our planet's valuable resources for 13 generations to come and support Frasier Solar, as I 14 do. Thank you. 15 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 16 Any questions from counsel. 17 Mr. Van Kley? 18 CROSS-EXAMINATION 19 Q Where did you obtain the statements that you 20 included in your testimony tonight? 21 A Where did I obtain the statements? 22 Q Yeah. Where did you get the information? 23 What did you read to get the information included in 24 your speech? 25 A I read a flyer, a brochure from Frasier 102 1 Solar, and I also received an email from a friend who 2 -- not -- well, a friend and person who supplied us 3 with solar panels, NH3 Solar. 4 Q Okay. Did anybody from Frasier Solar 5 contact you and ask you to testify? 6 A No. 7 Q Okay. Thank you. 8 A You're welcome. Thank you. 9 JUDGE HICKS: Further questions? 10 Thank you. 11 Up now is Joe Lennon, and on deck is 12 Cindy Lennon. 13 Mr. Lennon, are you an intervenor in 14 the case? 15 MR. LENNON: No. 16 JUDGE HICKS: Please raise your right 17 hand. 18 WHEREUPON, 19 JOE LENNON, 20 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 21 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 22 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 23 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 24 your name for the record. 25 THE WITNESS: My name is Joe Lennon, 103 1 J-O-E L-E-N-N-O-N. I live at 318 Crabapple Drive in 2 Howard, Ohio, in Howard Township. 3 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 4 in the project area? 5 THE WITNESS: I do not. 6 JUDGE HICKS: All right. Please go 7 ahead. 8 DIRECT STATEMENT 9 THE WITNESS: Okay. I oppose the 10 Frasier Solar project. I believe that the solar 11 panels and small wind generators are fine for 12 homeowners. I also believe we don't look far enough 13 into the future. 14 Like the homeowners that put solar 15 panels on their homes, if they decide to sell their 16 homes later, now they have to sell the solar panels as 17 well. And that creates less people that want to buy 18 homes. So it devalues their homes. 19 Utility-scale solar panels is a totally 20 different ballgame. For individual solar on their 21 homes, are we really looking far enough into the 22 future? Construction jobs, sure, but they're 23 short-term. 24 Once the main construction is done, 25 those jobs are gone. Sheep, farming around solar 104 1 panels? Sheep are 24 a day lawnmowers. The foliage 2 under the solar panels can't keep up because it will 3 be depleted from the sunlight. 4 Sheep eat 6 pounds of grass every day. 5 That's one sheep. Can you imagine how much 6 pounds 6 of grass is? 7 The commercial that Frasier Solar runs 8 on TV where the tractor is plowing a field, half the 9 field is nice green grass; the other half is a 10 perfectly tilled farmland. Where are the solar 11 panels? I don't see any solar panels in those 12 commercials. 13 It's all theatrics. Are we not looking 14 far enough into the future? My career job was as a 15 chief engineering officer for the railroad. I was 16 responsible for total track structure, including 17 bridge structure and road crossings. 18 I had to work the Federal Railroad 19 Administration and the Ohio Department of 20 Transportation Rail Division. I was responsible for 21 millions and millions and millions of dollars in 22 federal contracts. 23 My territory went from Lake Erie, New 24 Lexington, Ohio, and from Columbus, Ohio, to Mingo 25 Junction, Pennsylvania. And Mount Vernon was just a 105 1 little dot on my responsibility map. 2 I'm very, very educated in water 3 runoff, soil contamination. It's one of the biggest 4 problems the railroad track structure had. 5 I'm also -- I was a supervisor for a 6 major plastics manufacturer that delivered plastics 7 all over the world. I'm very aware of plastic 8 contamination also, and there's 10 percent of the 9 solar panels have plastics in them. 10 Okay. Let's get back to are we really 11 looking far enough into the future? Ohio produces 187 12 barrels -- bushels of corn per acre. That's per acre. 13 It -- one acre will produce 42,000 14 pounds of strawberries. One acre will produce 25,000 15 pounds of potatoes, 11,000 pounds of lettuce. 16 Frasier has about a thousand acres 17 under contract. IBV energy, about 900. That is a 18 total of 3,555 bushels of corn or 79,000 -- 79,800,000 19 pounds of strawberries, 48,000,260 pounds of potatoes, 20 20,000,300 pounds of lettuce. 21 I'd encourage you all, and all you 22 young peoples, and all you old people alike, that if 23 you vote for these solar panels, you are looking -- 24 you're not looking into the future, not very far. You 25 are helping to deplete our food source -- 106 1 JUDGE HICKS: Mr. Lennon -- I'm going 2 to -- we've hit your five minutes allotted time to 3 testify. So if you have a statement, you can leave it 4 with the court reporter. 5 THE WITNESS: Okay. I didn't see my 30 6 seconds go up. 7 JUDGE HICKS: You were looking down 8 when she was holding it up. 9 THE WITNESS: Sorry. Okay. 10 JUDGE HICKS: Any questions from 11 counsel? 12 Okay. Thank you for your testimony. 13 Up now is Cindy Lennon, and on deck is 14 Trina Trainor. 15 Ms. Lennon, are you an intervenor in 16 the case? 17 MS. LENNON: No. 18 WHEREUPON, 19 CINDY LENNON, 20 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 21 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 22 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 23 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please state 24 and spell your name for the record. 25 THE WITNESS: Cindy Lennon, C-I-N-D-Y 107 1 L-E-N-N-O-N. 2 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please provide 3 your address including any township. 4 THE WITNESS: 318 Crabapple Drive, 5 Howard Township. 6 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 7 in the project area? 8 THE WITNESS: I don't live in the 9 project area, but I do sell real estate and have 10 listed and sold in the project area and hope to in the 11 future. 12 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 13 with your testimony. 14 DIRECT STATEMENT 15 THE WITNESS: Solar panels contain 16 cadmium, which is highly toxic chemical. Exposure to 17 cadmium is known to cause cancer and targets 18 cardiovascular, renal, gastrointestinal, neurological, 19 reproductive, and respiratory systems in the body. 20 Another highly toxic chemical found in 21 industrial panels is arsenic. Arsenic is very 22 well-known toxin for causing a plethora of health 23 problems, especially when water systems are -- become 24 exposed. 25 Which leads me to my next point. Solar 108 1 panels are known for being easily damaged. Many 2 industrial solar panels contain microcracks that go 3 undetected. 4 These microcracks may not seem 5 dangerous for a single panel; however, when there are 6 thousands of panels and thousands of undetected 7 microcracks, that is incredibly dangerous. 8 Ohio is also very well known for having 9 frequent hail and thunderstorms. Hail damages solar 10 panels, creating cracks. Those cracks then leak 11 highly toxic chemicals into the land. This poses a 12 substantial risk to our drinking water, wildlife, and 13 contamination of natural flowing water. 14 As the recent weather has shown, Ohio 15 is also known for having rains that lead to flooding, 16 which again, drives home the point that solar panels 17 are very dangerous and high risk for environmental 18 contamination. 19 There is extreme validation in having 20 concern that these solar panels have a great potential 21 to catch fire. Ohio has high rates of thunderstorms. 22 As mentioned above, the risk of lightning striking 23 hundreds and even thousands of acres of land overtaken 24 by solar panels significantly poses risk. 25 And the result of lightning striking 109 1 and debris catching fire due to high temperatures, 2 heavy toxins will be released into the atmosphere. 3 Not only will the fumes hurt wildlife 4 and livestock, but it also poses an astronomical 5 threat to safety and wellbeing of our public servants 6 who are first responders. 7 The risk to -- the risks do not 8 outweigh the benefits. Industrial solar does not 9 create a safe environment for our children and 10 community. 11 Industrial solar is highly inconvenient 12 and not necessary and not in the public's best 13 interest. And I'm opposed to the solar project. 14 Thank you. 15 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 16 Any questions from counsel? 17 Thank you for your testimony. 18 Up now is Trina Trainor, and on deck is 19 Drenda Keesee. 20 JUDGE HICKS: Are you an intervenor in 21 the case? 22 MR. TRAINOR: No. 23 JUDGE HICKS: Please raise your right 24 hand. 25 // 110 1 WHEREUPON, 2 TRINA TRAINOR, 3 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 4 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 5 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 6 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 7 your name for the record. 8 THE WITNESS: Trina, T-R-I-N-A, last 9 name Trainor, T-R-A-I-N-O-R. 10 JUDGE HICKS: And please provide your 11 address with any township. 12 THE WITNESS: 92 Crabapple Court, 13 Howard, Ohio, Howard Township, Knox County. 14 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 15 in the project area? 16 THE WITNESS: I work near the project 17 area. 18 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 19 DIRECT STATEMENT 20 THE WITNESS: Weather plays a critical 21 role in solar fields in Ohio. We've had 17 confirmed 22 tornadoes in Ohio as of mid-March. And you've seen 23 the weather the last few days. Let's keep in mind 24 that solar panels are weather-resistant, not 25 weatherproof. 111 1 With this in mind and coupled with the 2 lack of sun here, this is a terrible idea to think 3 that the weather -- that we can weather the storm for 4 the next 40 years without incident. 5 I attended a recent city council 6 meeting in which several city council members said 7 they were hearing about this project for the first 8 time. This was just several weeks ago. Craig Adair 9 from Open Road Renewables apologized that this was the 10 first time he was speaking to them about the project. 11 After hearing brief testimony from both 12 sides, council quickly went to a vote, waiving three 13 readings and unanimously voted against the Frasier 14 project. It has approximately 100 acres within the 15 city limits. The newly formed sheep grazing idea was 16 also represented during the meeting, for the record. 17 As the executive director of the Mount 18 Vernon Music and Arts Festival, I am very concerned 19 about the economic impact of the arts in our community 20 as well. Our community has worked extremely hard to 21 develop a robust rural art community, and we'd like to 22 keep it that way. 23 Dreamland versus reality. Take a look 24 at what has happened in Morrow County and most 25 recently in Texas. Thank you. 112 1 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 2 Any questions from counsel? 3 Thank you for your testimony. 4 Up now is Drenda Keesee, and on deck is 5 Wendy Cagle. I might have pronounced that one, so I'm 6 sorry. 7 Ms. Keesee, are you an intervenor in 8 the case? 9 MS. KEESEE: I'm not. 10 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 11 right hand. 12 WHEREUPON, 13 DRENDA KEESEE, 14 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 15 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 16 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 17 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 18 spell your name for the record. 19 THE WITNESS: D-R-E-N-D-A, Drenda, 20 K-E-E-S-E-E, Keesee. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please provide 22 your address and any township. 23 THE WITNESS: Yes. 6040 Sharp Road, 24 Mount Vernon, Ohio. 25 JUDGE HICKS: And township or no? 113 1 THE WITNESS: Yes, Miller Township. 2 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And do you live or 3 work in the project area? 4 THE WITNESS: Absolutely, all around 5 me. 6 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 7 with your testimony. 8 DIRECT STATEMENT 9 THE WITNESS: All right. I know we all 10 have heard more about solar panels than we ever wanted 11 to know in our entire life. We're sorry this project 12 ever came this direction. 13 The Mount Vernon News stated that Knox 14 County election result indicate a public referendum on 15 industrial solar development in Knox County. Usually 16 a sleepy primary, elections were energized by the 17 solar debate. And the voters sent a clear message 18 against industrial solar development. 19 I am one of two Knox County likely 20 commissioners-elect who reflect our community's 21 opposition to the development of the Frasier Solar 22 utility project. 23 The recent Knox County republican 24 primary is a referendum against farmland solar as 25 quoted in the Mount Vernon News article: "Knox County 114 1 voters reject solar in county commissioner elections." 2 Solar was the major issue in our race. 3 The election represents a public outcry 4 against this Frasier Solar project. Bob Phillips and 5 I are both anti-solar candidates who took close to 70 6 percent of the vote, a whopping almost 5,000 votes 7 over the pro-solar incumbent Thom Collier. 8 In the other commissioner's race, an 9 anti-solar candidate, Barry Lester, won, whom you've 10 heard from. 11 Is this not all the proof you need to 12 register our community's rejection of this project? 13 Our community clearly voted against solar on farmland. 14 The games that are being played to try and convince 15 anyone otherwise are fabricated and unfortunately 16 bought and paid for by Frasier Solar. 17 In nine months, the two of us likely 18 newly elected commissioners will be responsible for 19 managing Knox County's grown and development. I will 20 be responsible for planning, leading, and enforcing 21 the public's mandates in a direction consistent with 22 Knox County's values and heritage. 23 I assure you that the Frasier Solar 24 project is not wanted nor needed in Knox County. It 25 is not compatible with our rural character, and it 115 1 will interfere in our comprehensive plans for Knox 2 County. 3 And yes, we are witness to the damage 4 and harm Open Road Renewables LLC has done to other 5 Ohio communities that have been taking over by the 6 Hillcrest solar project in Brown County. 7 Only 10 to 12 percent thermal 8 efficiency -- have an article here: "Wind and solar 9 generation required 20 times as much land per unit of 10 power produced than coal or natural gas-fired power 11 plants, including land disturbed to produce and 12 transport the fossil fuels." 13 This is from "In Wyoming Cheap 14 Electricity is Gone with the Wind," by Daniel 15 Horowitz. 16 We really resent the mediocre and 17 incompetent solar developers that have been encouraged 18 by our government to come here to Ohio, mainly from 19 Texas, to destroy our lives, our homes, and 20 communities with their government subsidies and greed. 21 Prioritizing net zero over grid 22 reliability means that we're pushing our electric grid 23 to the edge. 24 The more we rely on weather-dependent 25 generation sources, the more we put our lives, health, 116 1 and safety at risk should the wind not blow or the sun 2 not shine or a tornado devastate, like the 10,000 3 acres of broken solar panels in Texas right now. And 4 let's be honest, Ohio's weather is not that 5 dependable, as we know today. 6 Last year we imported more agriculture 7 than exported for the very first time in American 8 history. This should be a red alert. Solar in Ohio 9 has only 10 to 12 percent efficiency, but 20 times the 10 land needed, as I stated. That's our farmland and 11 that's our food. 12 The Inflation Reduction Act funds this. 13 Our tax dollars are being used against us. The food 14 reduction act, it would be better called. 15 Financial Times newspaper featured an 16 article, which I have here. It pictures China's 17 President Xi with solar panels, lithium batteries, and 18 wind turbines, and states "The long term goal is a 19 world economic order that favors China." 20 I look forward to your decision to deny 21 Frasier Solar's application. Please grant our 22 request, and let us alone to manage our county and our 23 communities as we choose. The people of Knox County 24 have spoken. In any measure possible, they voted 25 against this. They voted out those who did not 117 1 represent them in this solar debate. 2 As a likely new elected commissioner 3 with no opposition in the fall, I stand firmly with 4 the people of Knox County, the 17 township trustees' 5 resolutions, and the city council who all emphatically 6 said no to the blight on our farmland. Thank you. I 7 oppose the project. 8 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you, Ms. Keesee. 9 Thank you. We've hit your five minutes. 10 Thank you, folks. We need to carry on 11 here, please. 12 Mr. Settineri? 13 CROSS-EXAMINATION 14 BY MR. SETTINERI: 15 Q Good evening. Mike Settineri on behalf of 16 Frasier Solar. In running for office, you ran also on 17 issues of immigration, drugs, strengthening families, 18 and fighting for small business; correct? 19 A Those were minimally mentioned. Anyone that 20 heard any speech I gave, it was almost a hundred 21 percent calling out Thom Collier, the resolution that 22 commissioners made without the people's support. Is 23 that right? 24 JUDGE HICKS: Please, let's try not to 25 encourage. 118 1 THE WITNESS: Okay. 2 MR. SETTINERI: Yes, sir. 3 THE REPORTER: Excuse me. Could you 4 repeat what you were saying? 5 BY MR. SETTINERI: 6 Q You did run on those issues? 7 A I did not, and I've already answered. 8 Q Did you say you did? 9 A I said I did not run -- the issue I ran on 10 was anti-solar. I vaguely mentioned a couple of other 11 issues because we are commissioner. There are other 12 issues. 13 Q And those issues would have been listed in 14 your campaign ads in local papers; correct? 15 A Only in a couple newspaper articles. 16 Q Okay. Did you read the staff report that 17 was issued? 18 A I have glanced over the conditions. And I 19 can say that what I've seen thus far, I wouldn't trust 20 the conditions to be met because we've not been told 21 honestly other issues as well through this whole 22 two-and-a-half-year process. 23 Q Do you know how many conditions are in that 24 staff report? 25 A Sixty-something the last I saw it. 119 1 Q That was a good answer. Sixty. Okay. And 2 you're aware that the Power Siting Board has a 3 compliance team? 4 A Yes, I am. 5 Q And same question I've asked previously, as 6 a county commissioner, will you base your decision on 7 passion? 8 A I will base it on the passion of the people 9 because that's who I'm elected to represent. And they 10 do not want solar in this county. 11 THE REPORTER: Excuse me. I cannot 12 hear her. 13 JUDGE HICKS: Folks, we can't -- the 14 court reporter cannot -- I'm guessing you may need to 15 repeat your answer. 16 I'm begging you, please do not cheer 17 when she repeats it. 18 THE WITNESS: I'm here to represent the 19 people and they do not want solar in Knox County. 20 BY MR. SETTINERI: 21 Q And would you base a decision on passion if 22 it's contrary to the law? 23 A Not contrary to law, but the law says that 24 we are to represent the we the people. 25 Q And listening to your testimony tonight, am 120 1 I correct that you believe that utility-scale solar 2 does not belong in Ohio; correct? 3 A I'm sorry. Say that again. 4 Q Yeah. You believe that utility-scale solar 5 does not belong in Ohio; correct? 6 A I believe it does not belong in Knox County. 7 I'll let other trustees and commissioners decide for 8 their county. But I do not believe it is efficient. 9 10 to 12 percent efficiency is very low. To use 20 10 times the amount of land is a travesty to our food, 11 our future, and our farms. 12 MR. SETTINERI: No further questions. 13 Thank you. 14 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you, Mr. Settineri. 15 Up next is Wendy Cagle, and on deck is 16 Laurie Sutton. 17 Ms. Cagle, are you an intervenor in the 18 case? 19 MS. CAGLE: No. 20 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Pleas raise your 21 right hand. 22 // 23 // 24 // 25 // 121 1 WHEREUPON, 2 WENDY CAGLE, 3 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 4 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 5 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 6 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 7 your name for the record. 8 THE WITNESS: My name is Wendy, 9 W-E-N-D-Y, Cagle, C-A-G-L-E. I live at 2 North 10 Edgewood Road, Mount Vernon, Ohio. And I'm Clinton 11 Township. 12 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And do you live or 13 work in the project area? 14 THE WITNESS: No. 15 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 16 with your testimony. 17 DIRECT STATEMENT 18 THE WITNESS: I am here to oppose the 19 Frasier Solar panel project. But I am thankful for 20 this time in gathering in this setting that give our 21 community an opportunity to speak. What an amazing 22 country we live in. 23 I don't come today as a farmer, as a 24 farmer's wife, or even a rural homeowner. I do, 25 however, come to you as a daughter of a former Ohio 122 1 Grain elevator owner. 2 My father, God rest his soul, at the 3 time owned the largest independently owned elevator in 4 the state of Ohio, of which my brother and his loyal 5 employees helped run the day-to-day operations. 6 Because of this, I grew up with some 7 understanding of the farming industry and respected 8 the important process of preparing soil, planting 9 seed, and ultimately the harvest season. 10 Being the youngest, my father would 11 often take us on afternoon Sunday drives, as he called 12 it, driving through the countryside after church, 13 seeking growing crops and -- checking on growing crops 14 and the farms, trying to gauge how the season was 15 going to play out. 16 I remember many harvest nights that he 17 wouldn't come up, being in the combines himself, 18 trying to help the farmers get the crops off the 19 fields throughout the night so they could get some 20 sleep. 21 After all their hard work, the farmers 22 trucks would line up, have their corn, wheat, or beans 23 weighed, measured, dried, and siloed. I have many 24 found memories of sweeping corn and riding the rickety 25 elevator to the top of the silos when he would measure 123 1 how much storage room they had left before being full. 2 Eventually trains would come in. Cars 3 filled the grains -- cars filled with grain and then 4 be distributed around the entire country. 5 My father eventually sold the elevator, 6 but my nephew still to this day works in the elevator 7 business. I tell y'all of this to share a different 8 perspective. I live in the city but raised my 9 children to respect the farming community. 10 There's a large farm outside our town. 11 We respectfully say out loud, God bless the farmer, 12 every single time we pass by. I can't imagine what my 13 father would say about all this polar [sic] stuff. He 14 wouldn't like it, as it would threaten his entire 15 life's work. 16 Many of us saw the disheartening drone 17 video before it was taken down, telling the story by a 18 neighbor of the poor Madison County farmer just north 19 of us who took his life, leaving his wife and two sons 20 with a thousand acres of farmland that he had leased, 21 farmed, put his sweat, dreams, and hopes into for 30 22 years, was sold out from under him and before his eyes 23 turned into a solid thousand acres of metal and glass. 24 Where his home and barn was surrounded 25 by acres of rich soil, beautiful green fields, and 124 1 evidence of the fruit of his labor, was now solid 2 solar panels. The landowner's daughter from 3 California inherited the land. 4 Not caring about the land and detached 5 from the situation for whatever reason, sold it to the 6 solar power company with or without knowing that this 7 transaction would completely devastate this family -- 8 to ruin. 9 And why aren't people talking about the 10 locust sounding inverters it takes to operate these 11 fields? Our nearby counties have tourists that come 12 in by the thousands each year to witness the lush 13 rolling green hills and experience the Amish 14 communities. 15 What a different landscape they will 16 witness if these solar panel frames are continued to 17 be allowed to take over our countryside. The United 18 States of America has some of the most beautiful 19 farmland in the world, and like I said, I'm no farmer. 20 But I am a product of a farm community. 21 We all are, for that matter. Every time we buy a loaf 22 of bread, fresh fruits, vegetables, meat, a can of 23 beans, a bag of frozen peas at the grocery store, 24 we're reminded of what our farm fields, farmers and 25 their hard work in this beautiful country contributes 125 1 to the world. 2 I also know -- I don't know about you, 3 but when I see the small signs in the produce section 4 that states locally grown, I find myself feeling a 5 sense of pride and gratitude for our local farmers. 6 The bottom line is this. It doesn't 7 take a farmer to learn about the damaging effects the 8 panels can have on the soil, especially if broken or 9 damaged, and recognize that the solar panel business 10 invades one of our county's, state's, and country's 11 greatest assets: farmable land. 12 Solar panels do not belong in our 13 fields, especially in Ohio where it still snows in 14 April and can be gray five to six months out of the 15 year. 16 All of these seems to be a small piece 17 of a much greater, bigger puzzle that leads to 18 enormous liability for our country. Thank you for 19 your time. 20 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 21 Any questions from counsel? 22 Thank you for your testimony. 23 Up next is Laurie Sutton, and on deck 24 is Kristi Ferrin. 25 Ms. Sutton, are you an intervenor in 126 1 the case? 2 MS. SUTTON: No. 3 JUDGE HICKS: Please raise your right 4 hand. 5 WHEREUPON, 6 LAURIE SUTTON, 7 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 8 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 9 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 10 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 11 spell your name for the record. 12 THE WITNESS: L-A-U-R-I-E S-U-T-T-O-N. 13 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please provide 14 your address and any township. 15 THE WITNESS: 3685 Hilliard State Road, 16 Hilliard, Ohio. 17 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 18 in the project area? 19 THE WITNESS: No. 20 JUDGE HICKS: Please go ahead. 21 DIRECT STATEMENT 22 THE WITNESS: I oppose the utility 23 solar development. We perish for lack of knowledge. 24 Is fertile farmland better used for food or renewable 25 energy? Why would we want to destroy our fertile 127 1 farmland and eliminate the ability for us to produce 2 food for a 40-year duration? 3 What are the long-term impacts of 4 utility solar developments on wildlife, water, 5 forestry, and humans? 6 There are not enough studies at present 7 to show the impact to our local ecosystems. No doubt 8 there will be altered effects from sun exposure to 9 moisture to surface temperatures, with unexpected 10 impacts on local ecosystems. 11 For example, the impact on solar 12 wildlife interactions and avian collisions. 13 Knox County is blessed to have bald 14 eagles, which were endangered. And bald eagles' nests 15 have increased over several years due to protection 16 laws. What will happen to the bald eagle when utility 17 solar developers invade rural ecosystems? 18 Weather is another variable, even for 19 the best of rural farming, but even more so for 20 maintaining the 220,000 to 270,000 PV solar panels 21 that are projected to be used in this almost 1400-acre 22 endeavor. 23 Damage to these PV panels causes all 24 sorts of soil erosion, leaching, and flooding if not 25 replaced promptly and properly. Even dust adhering to 128 1 these PV solar panels causes inefficiencies to the 2 electric output. 3 Ongoing maintenance is required to 4 maintain these acres of utility solar developments. 5 Throughout all sever forms of weather, lightning, hail 6 sleet, wind, dust, lack of light, extreme cold, 7 extreme heat, snow, et cetera. 8 The main goal of utility-solar 9 development is to provide electricity, not necessarily 10 growing crops. Grass seems to be the most 11 cost-effective ground cover in these excavated, 12 flattened fields of PV solar panels. 13 How does grass contribute to the 14 diverse rural ecosystems in place now in Knox County? 15 The proposed use of agrivoltaics 16 involves raising the heights of the PV solar panels, 17 increasing the cost of the utility solar panel 18 installation by digging deeper for wind loading, and 19 the need for additional steel for foundational ports. 20 Also, the spacing between the PV solar 21 panel rows must be increased, which decreases the 22 amount of electricity output. 23 And the wires need to be encased for 24 cattle and sheep grazing. The use of agrivoltaics 25 increases the overall cost of the installation and 129 1 ongoing maintenance cost to provide the main goal of 2 increased electricity. 3 You cannot burn fields any longer, 4 which is the oldest tool of agricultural cultivation 5 to turn around a field and plant a new crop. How will 6 crop rotation and cultivation be maintained with the 7 agrivoltaics? 8 Solar e-waste is a problem which has 9 not yet been solved in the USA, with no viable 10 solution at present. Is this truly progress or 11 destruction? No one will know the environmental 12 impact to our local ecosystems for decades to come. 13 I have a vested interest in Knox County 14 as this is where my church campus is located, in the 15 beautiful rural countryside where woods shelter native 16 wildlife, where native plants flourish, and where it 17 is surrounded by the fertile farmland of Knox County. 18 I enjoy the fresh produce from the 19 extensive rural farm markets throughout Knox County 20 throughout the seasons. I do not want to see those 21 farm markets decline or go out of business due to 22 disruption of the diverse, established, local, and 23 rural ecosystems already in place. 24 On March 19, 2024, the people of Knox 25 County spoke and said no with their votes to utility 130 1 solar development. Thank you for your time. 2 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 3 Any questions from counsel? 4 CROSS-EXAMINATION 5 BY MR. WIEGEL: 6 Q You said you live in Hilliard; correct? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Is that Franklin County? 9 A Franklin County? 10 Q Okay. Do you actively do any opposition to 11 solar in Franklin County? 12 A No, not at present. 13 Q So your only connection to Knox County is 14 your church campus? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Okay. Do you think it is -- even though you 17 have an opinion, do you believe that it's for the 18 people of Knox County to vocalize their support or 19 opposition over yours since you don't reside in Knox 20 County? 21 A No, I think I'm -- statewide, because it's 22 been nixed in some of the counties I resided in when I 23 was growing up: Auglaize, Logan, Allen, praise the 24 Lord. So those counties have nixed it so far. 25 Hopefully it stays that way. But yeah, I 131 1 have a vested interest in Ohio because I've been a 2 native Ohioan my entire life. I live in this state. 3 Q Okay. Thank you. 4 A You're welcome. 5 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you for your 6 testimony. 7 I'm just going to generally ask that -- 8 you slipped one by there on some friendly cross. 9 We're going to try to keep things moving here. 10 THE REPORTER: I'm sorry. What? 11 JUDGE HICKS: Ms. Ferrin [sic], we had 12 other counsel had a question for you. Ms. Ferrin 13 [sic]? 14 THE REPORTER: Sir, I don't think you 15 introduced yourself at the beginning, so when you ask 16 your question, can you state your name and your 17 affiliation, please? 18 JUDGE HICKS: Ms. Ferrin [sic], could 19 you -- he has a question for you. Could you come back 20 to the mic? 21 MR. EISENSON: Hi. My name is Matthew 22 Eisenson. I'm an attorney for Ethan Robertson. 23 CROSS-EXAMINATION 24 BY MR. EISENSON: 25 Q Hi. My name is Matthew Eisenson. I'm an 132 1 attorney for Ethan Robertson. 2 You argued at the agrivoltaics would 3 increase the price of the solar farm; is that correct? 4 A Yes. The implementation of it at the 5 beginning. Yes. Yes. 6 Q And would you rather that the solar farm not 7 have an agrivoltaics component? 8 A I didn't say that. I just said it increased 9 the cost of doing the business at the beginning. And, 10 I mean, your main goal is to provide electricity, so 11 that's your main goal. 12 Q And have you read the staff report? 13 A Yes, I have. 14 Q And do you know about how many sheep this 15 land could support? 16 A I've seen other reports, not just yours. 17 But yeah, it can support quite a few sheep. It has to 18 to graze on the grass or the mowing would be 19 astronomical. The mowing is astronomical. You use 20 the sheep to decrease the cost of the mowing. 21 Q It would be about -- 22 A I've seen some of the mowing at million -- a 23 million. 24 JUDGE HICKS: Let him finish his 25 question, and then you can answer. 133 1 BY MR. EISENSON: 2 Q So the project would support about 3,000 3 sheep; correct? And you are concerned about loss of 4 agricultural production? 5 A Of course. That's a given. That's a given. 6 You can't replace grass. Grass doesn't provide an 7 ecosystem that we have already in place. 8 Q But 3,000 sheep producing 4800 lambs per 9 year, isn't that a significant amount of agricultural 10 production? 11 A No, not under those conditions. 12 MR. EISENSON: Thanks. 13 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 14 Up next is Kristi Ferrin. I'm sorry, 15 Ms. Sutton. I might have referred to you as Ms. 16 Ferrin a moment ago. 17 THE WITNESS: You did, a few times. 18 JUDGE HICKS: My apologies. 19 On deck is Lorie Van Valkenburg. 20 Ms. Ferrin, are you an intervenor in 21 the case? 22 MS. FERRIN: No, I'm not. 23 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 24 right hand. 25 // 134 1 WHEREUPON, 2 KRISTI FERRIN, 3 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 4 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 5 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 6 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. You may need to 7 lean into the mic just a little bit. Could you please 8 state and spell your name for the record. 9 THE WITNESS: It's Kristi Ferrin, 10 K-R-I-S-T-I F-E-R-R-I-N. 11 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And could you 12 please provide your address with any township? 13 THE WITNESS: It is 9085 Graceland Lane 14 Road, Saint Louisville. And that's Eden Township. 15 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. And I'm still 16 having a little trouble hearing you, so -- my 17 apologies. 18 THE WITNESS: Sorry. Is this better? 19 JUDGE HICKS: I think so. More 20 importantly, if the court reporter can get you, we are 21 A-okay. 22 THE REPORTER: I'm fine. 23 THE WITNESS: Okay. Deal. 24 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. 25 And do you live or work in the project 135 1 area? 2 THE WITNESS: No. 3 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 4 with your testimony. 5 DIRECT STATEMENT 6 THE WITNESS: Okay. Great. 7 I'm a Licking County resident who lives 8 seven minutes from the Knox County line. I am 9 completely opposed to the Frasier Solar project. 10 Bringing industrial solar facilities into Ohio under 11 the guise of farming is an egregious act of violence 12 on our intelligence and our environment. 13 The solar panel farms destroying prime 14 farmland not only desecrates valuable ecosystems, it 15 also diminishes our ability to produce crops. The 16 farmland takeover is a direct attack on our way of 17 life, our pursuit of happiness, and our freedoms. 18 You're taking away our independence 19 that our forefathers fought so hard to preserve. Our 20 farmland is a secure food source that gives us the 21 freedom to grow our own food and distribute it. 22 Taking the land is taking away a 23 valuable resource that would have detrimental impact 24 on our agriculture. 25 Big corporations coming into our small 136 1 towns is resulting in the deaths of our communities. 2 By pitting neighbor against neighbor, taking advantage 3 of people in financial duress, and violating the 4 people's trust. 5 This takeover is an act of war against 6 the people and our land. I'm here to tell you that we 7 the people are the people. And we are ready to fight 8 against this facade of this green initiative. 9 JUDGE HICKS: Please, folks. 10 THE WITNESS: It is not a green deal 11 when you're seeking to kill and destroy our green 12 land. The same carbon footprints that you're alleging 13 to be reduced are actually being increased by the use 14 of big machinery that runs on gas and oil and the 15 emissions machinery puts into the air during the 16 construction of these solar fields. 17 There is not even sustainable data to 18 support these solar fields even being able to produce 19 at a viable rate. Ohio is not a sunshine state. We 20 quite frequently have hailstorms that will easily 21 damage the solar panels. 22 Texas has taught us that hail damages 23 the panels, making them into biohazards that leak into 24 the earth, poisoning the ground and the water. The 25 wells that people use for their homes and farms are 137 1 poisoned from the leaking waste coming in from the 2 solar panels. 3 I stand here today against the 4 industrial solar farms coming to Knox County in 5 solidarity with my neighboring community. Once this 6 farmland has been taken by the industrial solar 7 fields, the land becomes desolate. 8 Meaning, once these 40-year contracts 9 are up, there are hundreds and thousands of acres that 10 is no longer useful or viable. It is our 11 responsibility to protect our communities and our 12 younger generations from tyranny by indefinitely 13 limiting productional use of land. 14 The Frasier Solar project does not 15 serve public interest in any capacity. In fact, when 16 people found out about the backyard deals, NDA 17 contracts, and that the sitting commissioner did not 18 represent the people in good faith, they were voted 19 out of office. 20 To help satisfy the claim of public 21 interest, it shows a significant lack when 17 out of 22 22 townships have adopted resolutions to deny solar 23 projects being implemented within Knox County. 24 It is the due diligence of this board 25 to deny the solar Frasier project. There is too much 138 1 opposition from the community. The project lacks 2 support, integrity, and imposes a substantial threat 3 to the community's quality of life. 4 For this project to have been allowed 5 to come this far is a travesty. The people of Knox 6 County were deceived while this project tried to move 7 forward behind closed doors by corrupt elected 8 officials. 9 Fortunately for the community, this 10 corruption was exposed and still has the ability to be 11 stopped. I am honored to have the ability to speak 12 and convey the heart of most of the community and 13 surrounding communities. 14 When Intel came to Johnstown, the 15 community was sold out by the entrusted elected 16 officials. And before people knew what was going on, 17 the project was already being pushed through. 18 By the grace of God, this solar project 19 in Knox County was brought from the darkness, giving 20 us the ability to fight. Ohio has had enough of being 21 pushed around by big corporations that want to come in 22 and destroy our land, communities, independence, and 23 way of life. 24 I would like to thank all the members 25 for your time and consideration in this matter. I 139 1 encourage you to take this opportunity to do the right 2 thing, save this community, stand up for what's right, 3 shut down this industrial solar project here as you 4 did with the 1500 acres near Governor Mike DeWine's 5 home. 6 As a general reminder, you have a legal 7 obligation to deny the certification because it does 8 not serve public interest, convenience, and necessity. 9 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 10 THE WITNESS: You're welcome. 11 JUDGE HICKS: Any questions from 12 counsel? 13 Thank you for your testimony. 14 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 15 JUDGE HICKS: Up next is Lori Van 16 Valkenburg, and on deck is Kari Thomas. Mr. Van Kley 17 may be able to -- Kari Thomas, I believe, may be an 18 intervenor, so I may be able to save you a trip up. 19 Okay. 20 We will circle back to you as we had 21 indicated to Ms. Bartley. So on deck will be Scott 22 Noble. 23 Are you an intervenor in the case? 24 MS. VAN VALKENURG: I am not. 25 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 140 1 right hand. 2 WHEREUPON, 3 LORI VAN VALKENBURG, 4 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 5 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 6 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 7 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please state 8 and spell your name for the record. 9 THE WITNESS: Yes. Lori, L-O-R-I, Van 10 Valkenburg, V-A-N V-A-L-K-E-N-B-U-R-G. 11 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please provide 12 your address including any township. 13 THE WITNESS: Yes. I live at 663 14 Courtland Drive, Howard, Ohio 43028. And I'm in 15 Howard Township in Knox County. 16 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 17 in the project area? 18 THE WITNESS: I do not. 19 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 20 DIRECT STATEMENT 21 THE WITNESS: As far as the solar issue 22 on our farmland, the people of Knox County have 23 spoken. They have spoken loud and clear that they do 24 not want industrial solar on our farms. Their voting 25 in the most recent primary election held just a little 141 1 over two weeks ago indicates this. 2 The people of Knox County voted in two 3 county commissioners who are opposed to industrial 4 solar on our farmland. Of all the candidates who ran 5 for the two seats of county commissioner, the two most 6 vocal in opposition to the Frasier Solar project won 7 their seats. 8 One of these candidates was running 9 against the incumbent. The incumbent had been in 10 office for many years and made the motion and signed 11 the resolution to allow large industrial solar 12 projects in Knox County. 13 So his defeat at the polls was a clear 14 message that the people of Knox County were not in 15 agreement with his actions. 16 Another major indicator that speaks 17 volumes against Frasier's solar project and future 18 projects is the recent number of Knox County townships 19 that have signed resolutions banning large industrial 20 solar on our farmlands. 17 of the 22 townships so far 21 have done this. 17 of 22 so far. 22 It seems quite clear that this issue 23 should be over based on the overwhelming opposition to 24 it here in Knox County. I'm not a so-called expert on 25 solar, but I do have common sense to see what is 142 1 actually important to the people who actually live in 2 Knox County. 3 Don't we have the right to say what's 4 important to us in how our farmland is to be used? 5 The use of precious farmland for these projects 6 literally doesn't make sense from an environmental 7 aspect. Why would we want to use prime agricultural 8 land for anything other than food sources? 9 Why place of thousands of solar panels 10 there specifically? Not to mention, why Ohio? Ohio, 11 one of the seven least sunniest states. One of the 12 seven lowest states with peak sun hours as stated by 13 ww.solarreviews.com [sic]. 14 So if a business owner dealing in solar 15 and solar panels is actually caring about how much 16 energy they could provide through these solar panels, 17 wouldn't one of the biggest factors in determining 18 where they should set up these projects include the 19 most important aspect, that being sunlight, the most 20 sunlight you could get? 21 One would certainly not choose Ohio. 22 So there must be other reasons. Is it government 23 subsidies they receive no matter how inefficient or 24 illogical their placements are? Or what is/are the 25 real reasons they are pushing for these solar projects 143 1 here? 2 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 3 Any questions? 4 Mr. Settineri? 5 MR. SETTINERI: Thank you. 6 CROSS-EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. SETTINERI: 8 Q Good evening. 9 A Hi. 10 Q Just to clarify, you mentioned the election 11 in your testimony. 12 A Yes. 13 Q That was the Republican primary; correct? 14 A Yes. 15 Q And it wasn't a general election? 16 A It was a primary. 17 Q Thank you. 18 A Mm-hmm. 19 JUDGE HICKS: One second. Counsel also 20 has a question. 21 CROSS-EXAMINATION 22 BY MR. ELKIN 23 Q Just a couple more questions. Thanks. Is 24 it your belief that if the application for this 25 project is denied, all of the land in question would 144 1 continue to be used solely as agricultural land for 2 the next 40 years? 3 A I do not have the answer to that. 4 Q Just one follow-up question to that. What 5 do you would be more likely to incorporate 6 agricultural activities into the production, the solar 7 project or a residential development? 8 A That's not the issue right now. 9 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you for your 10 testimony. 11 Up next is Scott Noble. And then I 12 will just note after Mr. Noble's testimony, we are 13 going to take a break. We've been going for about two 14 and a half hours. Rhonda Noble is who is listed as on 15 deck. 16 I believe, Mr. Van Kley, she is an 17 intervenor as well? 18 So I will save you the trip up. When 19 we come back, you will go back on the list as well 20 when we circle back to everyone with intervenors 21 testifying. 22 Mr. Noble, are you an intervenor in the 23 case? 24 MR. NOBLE: No. 25 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 145 1 right hand. 2 WHEREUPON, 3 SCOTT NOBLE, 4 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 5 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 6 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 7 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. You may need to 8 put the mic up just a little bit. Could you please 9 state and spell your name for the record. 10 THE WITNESS: Scott, S-C-O-T-T, Noble, 11 N-O-B-L-E. 12 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please your 13 address including any township. 14 THE WITNESS: 4465 Possum Street, Mount 15 Vernon, Ohio, Miller Township. 16 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And do you live or 17 work in the project area? 18 THE WITNESS: I do. 19 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 20 with your testimony. 21 DIRECT STATEMENT 22 THE WITNESS: I am opposed to this 23 project. I have about 300 signatures for a petition 24 against this project. 25 I personally feel that covering 146 1 hundreds of thousands of acres with solar panels all 2 over our country is a very bad idea that we will all 3 eventually feel in the grocery stores and in your 4 checkbooks because it's going to cost us a lot of 5 money in food. That's all I got to say. 6 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you, sir. 7 Any question from counsel? 8 Thank you for your testimony, Mr. 9 Noble. 10 So as I said, we're going to take a 11 break. It looks like it's about 7:30. So if folks 12 could try to be back in their seats, we'll pick up at 13 7:45. 14 And just to let you know, up will be 15 Norma Barker or Parker -- I'm sorry I can't tell -- 16 and on deck will be Ron Butcher. So we will see you 17 back there then, and we will go off the record. 18 THE REPORTER: We are going off the 19 record at 7:28 p.m. 20 (Off the record.) 21 THE REPORTER: We are back on the 22 record at 7:49 p.m. Go ahead. 23 JUDGE HICKS: Go ahead, Mr. Settineri. 24 MR. SETTINERI: Your Honor, just what I 25 view as a matter of housekeeping. I know the last 147 1 witness had a petition signed by a number of people. 2 I would ask tonight that any statements from others of 3 that nature go on the public comment docket because 4 those people are not here tonight. 5 JUDGE HICKS: Any other counsel? 6 MR. TAVENOR: I would support that. 7 MR. VAN KLEY: I would object to that. 8 If they're handing in petitions or 9 anything else that -- whatever exhibits they have 10 should be provided with the same sort of status as any 11 other exhibits that are accompanying the testimony 12 tonight. 13 I don't see any reason to treat them 14 any differently just because they happen to be 15 petitions. If anything, petitions are probably more 16 valuable and the board should pay more attention to 17 those than other exhibits attached to testimony 18 tonight. 19 JUDGE HICKS: There's -- Mr. Settineri? 20 THE REPORTER: I'm so sorry. Could you 21 take the mic? 22 JUDGE HICKS: There we go. So we're 23 going to allow it to be attached to the transcript. 24 The board has the expertise to give the petition the 25 weight it deserves. 148 1 And we're just going to carry on. 2 And with that, I'm going to hand it off 3 to my colleague to continue. 4 JUDGE ASTA: Ms. Parker, are you an 5 intervenor? 6 MS. PARKER: No, I'm not. 7 JUDGE ASTA: Could you raise your right 8 hand. 9 WHEREUPON, 10 NORMA PARKER, 11 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 12 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 13 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 14 JUDGE ASTA: Could you please state 15 your name and spell it for the record. 16 THE WITNESS: I'm Norma Parker. It's 17 N-O-R-M-A P-A-R-K-E-R. 18 JUDGE ASTA: And your address including 19 the township? 20 THE WITNESS: 6687 Blackjack Road, 21 Mount Vernon, Ohio, Miller Township. 22 JUDGE ASTA: And do you reside or work 23 within the project area? 24 THE WITNESS: I do. I reside. 25 JUDGE ASTA: All right. You may go. 149 1 DIRECT STATEMENT 2 THE WITNESS: I know that a lot of 3 other testifiers tonight will talk about the amount of 4 sun that we lack in Ohio. 5 The statistics of electric that the 6 solar actually produces, that there's not a 7 responsible use -- this is not a responsible use for 8 our prime farmland, and about the decrease in the 9 value of our properties. 10 Even though I agree a hundred percent, 11 I'm going to speak on a more personal level. I'm 12 going to try. 13 If Frasier Solar is approved, we will 14 be able to look out any one of our windows and see a 15 field of solar panels. We'll no longer be able to see 16 the sun actually rise or set as the 15-foot panels 17 will be in the sightline of our horizon. 18 There will be four inverters within a 19 mile of our home. Two will be within -- three will be 20 within a half a mile, and one of them will be 21 approximately 500 feet away from our backyard. 22 Inverters can be heard for a mile. 23 This is a constant high pitch tone, 24 hours a day, 24 365 days a year, for 40 years. It'll be a sound we 25 will hear forever. Can you imagine opening your 150 1 windows in the summer? 2 We love it outside in the warm weather. 3 And we listen to the tree frogs, the crickets, the 4 birds. We watch the animals in the distance. It's a 5 total Zen just sitting outdoors as I am sure it is 6 with our other homeowners that purchase land in the 7 country for the same reason. We like peaceful. 8 We have a lot of wildlife in this area. 9 A fenced in solar field will re-route them towards the 10 heavily trafficked roads nearby. There's a small 11 stream that runs through the project area. We see a 12 lot of different bird species that feed in that 13 stream, including the American bald eagles. 14 Please reject Frasier Solar, as 17 of 15 Knox County's 22 townships have passed industrial 16 solar exclusionary zones. The facility does not serve 17 public interest, convenience, or necessity, as the 18 state law requires. Thank you. 19 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. 20 Any questions? 21 Thank you for your testimony. 22 Next up is Ron Butcher, and Teresa 23 Peters on deck. 24 Mr. Butcher, are you a intervenor in 25 this case? 151 1 MR. BUTCHER: No, I'm not. 2 JUDGE ASTA: Could you raise your right 3 hand. 4 WHEREUPON, 5 RON BUTCHER, 6 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 7 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 8 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 9 JUDGE ASTA: And if you could please 10 state and spell your name for the record. 11 THE WITNESS: Ron Butcher, R-O-N 12 B-U-T-C-H-E-R. My address of my family farm is 12360 13 Butcher Road, Mount Vernon, in Miller Township, Knox 14 County, Ohio. 15 JUDGE ASTA: And do you reside or work 16 within the project -- 17 THE WITNESS: Yes. 18 JUDGE ASTA: All right. You may 19 proceed. 20 DIRECT STATEMENT 21 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you. 22 Like I said, my name is Ron Butcher. 23 Butcher Road, Mount Vernon, Ohio, the address is our 24 140-acre family farm, one field south of the proposed 25 Frasier project. 152 1 I oppose this project to be built on 2 prime farmland. Founded in 1870, we're a 150-year 3 historical designated farm by the state of Ohio. My 4 grandfather and my father both died right here on the 5 soil of our farm. Non-farm people don't understand 6 what it's like to own farm ground. 7 My wife, my son, his wife and my 8 grandchildren operate our beautiful farm. They're the 9 seventh generations of Butchers to live and operate 10 the family farm. 11 We are sickened. We're angry that this 12 ugly industrial site could be the new forever view for 13 us and hundreds of our local families here in Knox 14 County. 15 We raise both pork and beef on our 16 farm, and we're one of Knox County's largest maple 17 syrup producers, tapping nearly 5,000 trees, including 18 one tract of woods which is on the property that 19 borders the Frasier project. 20 We don't know what 40 years of these 21 panels are going to do. Increased ambient air 22 temperatures from solar panels could affect the maple 23 sap production in these woods and have an impact on a 24 continued agriculture viability of our land. 25 Our sustainability relies on our 153 1 agritourism business to sell our family products. 2 Hundreds of tourists from all over central Ohio travel 3 to Knox County to attend our annual open house 4 weekends and throughout the year to purchase our 5 products and enjoy what we have to offer: the small 6 family experience and the education about where food 7 comes from. Food doesn't come from Walmart. It comes 8 from us. 9 Families who tour our farm rave about 10 how beautiful it is here in Knox County. Families -- 11 and when we talk about what our new forever view is 12 going to be from the front of our store looking out 13 across there, people were just angry that that's even 14 a thing in Knox County. 15 Our farm is in a valley downstream of 16 the southern end of the project. Any additional 17 runoff water, which we assume there will be, will run 18 downhill and affect us dramatically. We can't 19 tolerate any additional runoff water, which we know 20 this project will cause. 21 As we've seen over the last few days, 22 our rainfall events are becoming larger and causing 23 erosion. This project severely impacts the continued 24 agriculture viability of our downstream farm and other 25 farm ground in Miller Township. 154 1 Our environment is going to be 2 impacted. We watch the deer and wildlife run across 3 the fields of this proposed site daily. This is not 4 good stewardship of our land. 5 US Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack on 6 March 26th said that he was encouraging the use -- 7 stated that we're encouraging the use of non-prime 8 farmland for purposes of renewable energy, and said he 9 was concerned that renewable energy will overtake 10 prime farm ground. 11 Ten million acres of solar collectors 12 are proposed. That's a lot of sheep. This project 13 does not satisfy any public interest, convenience, or 14 necessity in our community. 15 It benefits a handful of landowners. 16 It's not saving any family legacy farms. It actually 17 has the potential to sell some prime farm ground to 18 out of state investors. 19 Our community is united against this. 20 We're hearing from pro-solar people have been 21 recruited to be here. They're not even from the 22 community. Union workers are lobbying for their 23 benefit with no concern about ruining the quality of 24 life in our community. 25 Many pro-solar proponents in Knox 155 1 County are property owners and relatives of people 2 receiving money from the project. We don't know how 3 sustainable the sheep grazing thing is. 4 We just know that it's probably not 5 going to generate nearly as much revenue as currently 6 generated now for agriculture. I'm scared to death 7 about construction and danger of my grandkids riding 8 their bikes between different barns. 9 In closing, just like Greene County, 10 where you denied the Kingswood solar project where 11 Governor DeWine's farm is located, we do not want this 12 industrial project here either. We are praying that 13 you give us the same consideration that you gave the 14 residents of Greene County and deny this project. 15 JUDGE ASTA: Any questions? 16 Thank you, Mr. Butcher. 17 Teresa Peters, and next up is Dan 18 Peters. 19 Ms. Peters, are you an intervenor in 20 this case? 21 MS. PETERS: No, I am not. 22 JUDGE ASTA: Can you raise your right 23 hand. 24 // 25 // 156 1 WHEREUPON, 2 TERESA PETERS, 3 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 4 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 5 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 6 JUDGE ASTA: Could you state your name 7 and spell it for the record. 8 THE WITNESS: Teresa Peters, 9 T-E-R-E-S-A Peters, P-E-T-E-R-S. 10 JUDGE ASTA: And your address? 11 THE WITNESS: 6796 Possum Street. And 12 that's in Miller Township, approximately a mile away 13 from the project. 14 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. You may 15 proceed. 16 DIRECT STATEMENT 17 THE WITNESS: Okay. I'm opposed to 18 Frasier Solar project, very much. I've researched the 19 effects of solar on farm ground and have many 20 concerns, several of which are property values 21 depreciating, loss of food for animals and human 22 consumption, impact on wildlife, the thousands of 23 deer, eagles, et cetera. 24 We have deer everywhere in our 25 community. When we drive anywhere at night, they're 157 1 all over the road. So we don't want this for them. 2 Pollution into soil and wells from runoff, disposal of 3 old solar panels -- how do they get rid of those? 4 Knox County is a farming community with 5 beautiful country views given to us by God, and should 6 not be destroyed by thousands of ugly China-made solar 7 panels that do not produce enough power to the number 8 of acres taken out of farming production for the same 9 reasons that you would not put solar panels in a 10 wildlife preserve are the same reasons that they 11 should not be put on our farm ground in our county or 12 our township. 13 People live here. This is my family, 14 my friends, and the 90 percent, I'm pretty sure, that 15 do not want solar panels in our community. 16 Most of the pro-solar people who have 17 testified will not be affected by the solar panels, as 18 the people who live here in the middle of fields of 19 solar panels. 20 Those of us that will have to live near 21 the panels and look at them every day, drive through 22 them daily, listen to their noise, miss our beautiful 23 fields, livestock, and wildlife, do not want solar 24 panels in our community. Thank you. 25 JUDGE ASTA: Any questions? 158 1 Thank you. 2 Dan Peters, and up next is Darrell 3 Bebout. If I said that wrong, I apologize. 4 Mr. Peters, are you an intervenor in 5 this case? 6 MR. PETERS: No. 7 JUDGE ASTA: Can you raise your right 8 hand? 9 WHEREUPON, 10 DAN PETERS, 11 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 12 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 13 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 14 JUDGE ASTA: Could you state your name 15 and spell it for the record. 16 THE WITNESS: Dan Peters, D-A-N 17 P-E-T-E-R-S. 18 JUDGE ASTA: And your address and 19 township as well. 20 THE WITNESS: 6796 Possum Street, Mount 21 Vernon, Miller Township, about a mile from the major 22 part of this project. 23 JUDGE ASTA: You can go ahead. 24 DIRECT STATEMENT 25 THE WITNESS: Okay. Yes. We are 159 1 opposed to this project, not to solar. You want it on 2 your house, that's fine. I wouldn't pick it because 3 Centerburg School already caught fire from a solar 4 panel and a lot of people don't even know that 5 happened last summer. 6 So we don't want to lose farm ground, 7 crop ground, or rural landscape. Just know we've been 8 seeing bald eagles less than an eighth of a mile from 9 our house. The local opposition is 17 out of 22 10 townships in Knox County including the city of Mount 11 Vernon and on your paper it says opposition from the 12 people that live here. 13 And I would say that's definitely a lot 14 of opposition. The opposition is about 78 to 80 15 percent in the county and probably more than that in 16 our township. A lot of the lessees don't even live in 17 the area, so I wouldn't call them farmers. I'd call 18 them landowners. 19 They tried to put one a half a mile 20 from the Governor that was just mentioned, and they 21 turned it down. They don't want it either. 22 Little money to the local fire and EMS 23 department. I haven't heard that at all. I believe 24 the number was 300,000 one-time shot to our local fire 25 department. Over 40 years, one-time payment. That's 160 1 absurd. 2 I don't see the big enhancement to our 3 community for this project. It will lower property 4 values. If these folks don't want it that are here 5 tonight, why would anybody want to pay market price 6 for the house that you have now if it devalues the 7 property value? 8 The loss of income and jobs for locals 9 including equipment companies, local farming equipment 10 companies will have to leave. We have about four of 11 them in our town. What are they going to do? 12 Out of town work -- taking all of their 13 dollars to the area where they live and pay for their 14 houses. If you don't live here, why are you here 15 speaking about our community? I'm done. 16 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. 17 Any questions? 18 Thank you. 19 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 20 JUDGE ASTA: Darrell Bebout, and up 21 next is Rebecca Chamberlin. 22 Mr. Bebout, am I saying your name 23 correctly? 24 MR. BEBOUT: Bebout. Yes. 25 JUDGE ASTA: Awesome. Are you an 161 1 intervenor in this case? 2 MR. BEBOUT: No. 3 JUDGE ASTA: Could you raise your right 4 hand. 5 WHEREUPON, 6 DARRELL BEBOUT, 7 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 8 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 9 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 10 JUDGE ASTA: Could you state your name 11 and spell it for the record. 12 THE WITNESS: Darrell Bebout, 13 D-A-R-R-E-L-L B-E-B-O-U-T. I live at 15893 Vance 14 Road, Mount Vernon, Ohio. I am in Miller Township. 15 JUDGE ASTA: And do you reside or work 16 near the project area? 17 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. 18 JUDGE ASTA: You may proceed. 19 DIRECT STATEMENT 20 THE WITNESS: I am opposed to the 21 Frasier Solar project slated for Knox County. This is 22 a waste of prime farm ground that we do not have to 23 waste. In 2023, 1.8 million acres of US farm ground 24 was taken out of production for industrial and 25 residential use. 162 1 In 2023, the United States imported 2 more food than it exported. If we continue to waste 3 our farm ground on efficient projects such as this, we 4 will soon be importing all of our food. And subject 5 to pay whatever price is demanded. 6 It will be no different than it is now 7 for oil and oil producing countries that set the price 8 and tell us how much we can have. 9 The risk of leaking from these solar 10 panels going in to pollute our underground water 11 supply -- there is a very high water table in Miller 12 Township. 13 Water in my well is only 17 feet under 14 the ground. My neighbor has a well that flows 2-inch 15 pipe without being pumped. The risk of contamination 16 to this underground water supply is not worth it. 17 We have some of the best underground 18 water in the state of Ohio and this should be 19 protected at all cost. 20 The solar project also infringes on the 21 nesting ground of a group of sandhill cranes, which 22 are on an endangered species list for the state of 23 Ohio. 24 These solar fields will displace a 25 large number of wildlife, forcing them onto the 163 1 neighboring farms, causing increase in crop damage and 2 reducing profitability. This will also cause wildlife 3 to cross the roads more frequently, resulting in more 4 automobile accidents, thus causing higher auto 5 insurance rates. 6 There are a multitude of low-head dams 7 in the state of Ohio. Why don't we look into putting 8 in hydroelectric plants there? I know if wouldn't 9 produce as much as the Hoover Dam, but they would not 10 take up as much ground as the inefficient solar 11 fields, and they will not have as big of an impact -- 12 effect on our environment. Thank you. 13 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. 14 Any questions? 15 Thank you. 16 Rebecca Chamberlin, and up next is Brad 17 Carothers. 18 Are you an intervenor in this case, Ms. 19 Chamberlin? 20 MS. CHAMBERLIN: No. 21 WHEREUPON, 22 REBECCA CHAMBERLIN, 23 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 24 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 25 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 164 1 JUDGE ASTA: And please state your name 2 and spell it for the record. 3 THE WITNESS: Rebecca, R-E-B-E-C-C-A, 4 Chamberlin, C-H-A-M-B-E-R-L-I-N. 5 JUDGE ASTA: And your address and 6 township. 7 THE WITNESS: 10445 Blue Road, just 8 like the color blue, Mount Vernon, in Liberty 9 Township. 10 JUDGE ASTA: And do you live or work 11 near the project area? 12 THE WITNESS: No. 13 JUDGE ASTA: You may proceed. 14 DIRECT STATEMENT 15 THE WITNESS: Good evening. My husband 16 and I live near Mount Vernon in Liberty Township, in 17 the same house for 24 years. I have lived in Knox 18 County my entire life, except when I attended college. 19 I've seen Knox County change a lot over my lifetime, 20 and I suspect it will change even more. 21 I love how Knox County has such a 22 variety of land usage. We have agricultural, 23 residential areas, factories, public spaces like 24 parks, and many kinds of stores and businesses. How 25 we have evolved is that landowners have made decisions 165 1 about what they think is best to do with their land. 2 Now we have some landowners who are 3 partnering with a company to implement a solar project 4 in our county. The question is, should a landowner 5 have the right to do what they want with the land, or 6 does the community have the right to prevent the 7 landowner from making their own choices? 8 Here's how I see it. If the landowner 9 should be able to make choices -- the landowner should 10 be able to make choices about their land as long as 11 what they're doing isn't hurting their neighbors. 12 I've read a lot about the solar Frasier 13 [sic] project, and in the end, I support the project. 14 I think they're going to be good neighbors, and here's 15 why. 16 First, the project supports agriculture 17 by allowing some young farmers to have grazing land 18 for their sheep. And the land can be used for farming 19 even after the solar project lease ends. This keeps 20 agriculture alive in our county for years to come. 21 Second, the project supports the 22 environment by creating clean energy. 23 And third, it will be quiet and clean. 24 I think that's what a lot of people worry about. Will 25 it be loud? Will it be trashy? And here's what I've 166 1 learned. Solar panels aren't loud. 2 Also, there will be landscaping 3 including trees and other plants to serve as barriers 4 between the project and the neighbors. And the solar 5 panels will be cleaned up at the end of the project. 6 These landowners and the Frasier Solar 7 project have a plan that will allow them to keep this 8 land for agriculture use, create clean energy, all 9 while being clean and quiet. So that tells me we 10 should allow the landowners to decide how to use their 11 land and allow the Frasier Solar project to move 12 forward. 13 I know my land is not bordering the 14 project. But I do have my land of my own, and I 15 border other agricultural land. I realize we are all 16 going to have to make decisions about our land over 17 time. 18 I can only hope that my neighbors and I 19 put in the time and consideration that the Frasier 20 Solar project has. They are doing things that are 21 right for the community and seem committed to being 22 good neighbors. 23 Sheep and solar panels seem like good 24 neighbors to me. To me, it's a whole lot better than 25 a lot of other things I can imagine moving in. 167 1 JUDGE ASTA: Any questions? 2 Thank you, Ms. Chamberlin. 3 Brad Carothers, and after Mr. 4 Carothers, Katie Carothers. 5 Are you an intervenor? 6 MR. CAROTHERS: No. 7 JUDGE ASTA: Please raise your right 8 hand. 9 WHEREUPON, 10 BRAD CAROTHERS, 11 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 12 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 13 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 14 JUDGE ASTA: Please state your name and 15 spell it for the record please. 16 THE WITNESS: Brad Carothers, B-R-A-D 17 C-A-R-O-T-H-E-R-S. 18 JUDGE ASTA: And your address and 19 township. 20 THE WITNESS: 7510 Granville Road, 21 Mount Vernon, Ohio. And that's in Clinton Township. 22 JUDGE ASTA: And do you live or work 23 near the project area? 24 THE WITNESS: I live in the project 25 area. 168 1 DIRECT STATEMENT 2 THE WITNESS: Hello. My name is Brad 3 Carothers. I'm the director of operations for New 4 Slate Land Management and serve on the board of 5 trustees of the Ohio Sheep Improvement Association. 6 Agriculture has deep roots in Knox 7 County. And on agricultural sector in particular is 8 the sheep industry. 9 Knox County has continued to be one of 10 the largest producing sheep counties in Ohio, and Ohio 11 currently ranks fourth nationally with 4,133 total 12 sheep averages, but falls to 11th with 143,000 in 13 total sheep and land population. That leaves an 14 average flock size of 34. 15 One of the biggest factors to keep the 16 average flock size limited has been lack access. 17 However, Ohio is being offered with an opportunity. 18 The amount of acreage of solar 19 development being proposed and currently under 20 construction provide to the future of the Ohio sheep 21 industry with opportunities for growth never seen in 22 the state before. 23 We are fortunate Frasier Solar, a 24 proposed utility-scale solar project, aiming to come 25 to Knox County. Not only will create construction 169 1 jobs and generate millions of dollars in revenue for 2 local schools and local services, it will support 3 agriculture and create jobs for local farmers. 4 Frasier Solar is committed to dual 5 solar/agricultural land use. New Slate Land 6 Management has been working closely with Frasier Solar 7 to develop a plan to allow for a sheep grazing 8 operation within the project area. 9 Last month we signed an agreement to 10 provide sheep and to manage the vegetation at the 11 840-acre site. About 2500 head of sheep will 12 eventually be needed, which will make this one of the 13 largest sheep grazing operations in Ohio. 14 Frasier Solar has agreed to plan a 15 robust ground vegetation for erosion control and 16 stormwater management benefits, and to preserve for 17 cultivation that will also serve as pasture and a food 18 source for our sheep. 19 We are excited about what solar grazing 20 can mean for Ohio and Knox County's agricultural 21 output. Currently the US imports about 70 percent of 22 lamb consumed here as domestic production has 23 declined. This means money and jobs that could stay 24 in our local communities are lost to foreign 25 competition. 170 1 Dual land use solar project like 2 Frasier will significantly to the growth of the sheep 3 in Ohio and across the US. A solar grazing industry 4 has already seen tremendous growths over the last 5 three years. 6 Today, according to a census done by 7 the American Solar Grazing Association, there are over 8 100,000 acres being grazed by 80,000 sheep across 500 9 sites in 27 states. 10 Solar grazing is a proven method of 11 safe and effective vegetation management on 12 utility-scale solar arrays that will also provide an 13 impeccable opportunity for the growth of the sheep 14 industry. 15 The bottom line is sheep grazing at 16 Frasier Solar will foster a symbiotic relationship 17 that supports local farming, jobs, and land 18 preservation as well as clean, local, and low-cost 19 energy production. 20 JUDGE ASTA: Any questions? 21 Mr. Van Kley? 22 CROSS-EXAMINATION 23 BY MR. VAN KLEY: 24 Q So will you personally benefit if this 25 project goes forward? 171 1 A New Slate Land Management will have a 2 contract to maintain to vegetation. 3 Q Is that a company that you own? 4 A That is a company I am partner in. 5 Q Okay. Thank you. 6 CROSS-EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. WIEGEL: 8 Q If there's not enough sheep under your 9 contract, you said you're maintaining the vegetation, 10 are you also in charge of mowing? 11 A So our job is to maintain the vegetation in 12 accordance with the vegetation management plan. So it 13 would utilize both sheep and mowing as needed to 14 ensure that the vegetation was properly maintained. 15 Q But you would then still get paid even if 16 there are no sheep? 17 A Our job is to maintain the vegetation and 18 our plan is to use sheep to do that. 19 MR. WIEGEL: Okay. Thank you. 20 JUDGE ASTA: Any other questions? 21 Thank you. 22 Katie Carothers, and up next is Tasha 23 McKinney. 24 Ms. Carothers, are an intervenor in 25 this case? 172 1 MS. CAROTHERS: Please raise your right 2 hand. 3 WHEREUPON, 4 KATIE CAROTHERS, 5 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 6 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 7 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 8 JUDGE ASTA: Please state your name and 9 spell it for the record. 10 THE WITNESS: Katie, K-A-T-I-E, 11 Carothers, C-A-R-O-T-H-E-R-S. 12 JUDGE ASTA: And your address including 13 the township. 14 THE WITNESS: 7510 Granville Road, 15 Mount Vernon, Ohio. Township is Clinton. 16 JUDGE ASTA: And do you live or work in 17 the project area? 18 THE WITNESS: Yes, I live and work in 19 the project area. 20 JUDGE ASTA: You may proceed. 21 DIRECT STATEMENT 22 THE WITNESS: I support the Frasier 23 Solar project. As you heard from my partner Brad, our 24 company New Slate Land Management intends to be the 25 vegetation management contractor for the 840-acre site 173 1 where we will be employing around 2500 sheep in a 2 rotational grazing system to keep the grass from 3 shading the panels and improving the soils over the 4 lifespan of the project. 5 Frasier Solar, like all of the solar 6 projects that utilize agrivoltaics, is one of the 7 greatest opportunities for farmers who wish to grow 8 their business but struggle with land access in this 9 competitive market. 10 Our company provides -- combines over 11 25 years of experience in sheep husbandry with 12 advanced education in immunology, botany, and 13 engineering, and management, to provide a quality 14 service to the solar project and residents within the 15 viewshed of the project area. 16 For many years, we have been breeding 17 sheep to be uniquely suited to grazing under solar 18 panels. Focusing on genetic parasite resistance and 19 immune function and growth on grass. 20 We have sold breeding stock at top 21 production auctions across the eastern US and to other 22 solar grazing operations, and found a niche breeding 23 seed stock specifically for solar grazing. 24 When we received a mailer several years 25 ago informing us of the proposed Frasier Solar 174 1 project, we quickly reached out to Craig from Open 2 Road Renewables to ask about grazing the Frasier 3 project. 4 It felt very encouraging when Open Road 5 was eager to incorporate grazing and wanted to partner 6 with us to develop the grazing plan for the Fasier 7 site and eventually sign a letter of intent with our 8 company to graze Frasier. 9 Thank you to the landowners for giving 10 such a great opportunity to a new generation of 11 farmers. I encourage this board to give special 12 consideration to all projects with a strong commitment 13 to agrivoltaics for all the benefits it will bring to 14 the local communities and beyond. 15 We look forward to bringing quality 16 grass-fed lamb to Knox County dinner tables. 17 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. 18 Questions? 19 Thank you. 20 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 21 Tasha McKinney, and up next is Karen 22 Schmitt. 23 But Mr. Van Kley, is Karen an 24 intervenor? 25 If I could save you a trip. Yeah. 175 1 Then up next would be Madonna Pierce. 2 Ms. McKinney, are you an intervenor in 3 this case? 4 MS. MCKINNEY: I'm not. 5 JUDGE ASTA: Please raise your right 6 hand. 7 WHEREUPON, 8 TASHA MCKINNEY, 9 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 10 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 11 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 12 JUDGE ASTA: Please state your name and 13 spelling for the record. 14 THE WITNESS: Tasha, T-A-S-H-A, 15 McKinney, M-C-K-I-N-N-E-Y. 16 JUDGE ASTA: And your address and 17 township. 18 THE WITNESS: 5714 Range Line Road. 19 That's Mount Vernon. And I live in the township of 20 Morgan. 21 JUDGE ASTA: And do you live or work 22 near the project area? 23 THE WITNESS: I reside. 24 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. 25 // 176 1 DIRECT EXAMINATION 2 THE WITNESS: Thank you. Okay. 3 So I am present this evening to state 4 my adamant opposition to the Frasier Solar project in 5 Knox County. Over two decades ago, after a 6 significant search, my husband and I carefully and 7 specifically chose to purchase and settle our family 8 here in Knox County. And we affectionately call it 9 home. 10 My township of residence, again, is 11 Morgan. It borders Miller Township, with Range Line 12 Road, the road that I live on, being basically the 13 divider line between the townships. This is an area 14 slated for one of the many projected industrial solar 15 plants. 16 We chose Morgan Township for the 17 beautiful agricultural landscape, the wildlife, the 18 tranquil sounds of nature, and the overall sense of 19 brotherly community that is present in a rural 20 neighborhood. All of these attributes would be lost 21 should this industrial solar plant be permitted. 22 The unsightly plant would be the view 23 across the field from my front porch. The constant 24 buzzing noise from the inverters would replace the 25 wonderful nature sounds, and who knows what impact and 177 1 negative ramifications are going to be on the 2 wildlife. 3 Additionally, the industrial solar 4 plant would have detrimental impact on not only my 5 property value, but the property values of all of my 6 neighbors, the other community here in Knox County. 7 Did no one at any official level in 8 Knox County government let alone representatives at 9 Frasier Solar, have the thought to solicit the general 10 opinion of the residents of Knox County on the matter 11 of installing solar panels in such large industrial 12 volumes in our communities? 13 And do so very openly and transparently 14 prior to moving forward with any signed agreements? 15 This certainly calls into question motives and intent. 16 The betrayal and failure of certain 17 elected officials to protect the residents of Knox 18 County from this industrial intrusion is shameful. 19 I dare say that the level of organized 20 opposition that has emerged over this matter, with 17 21 of our 22 townships adopting resolutions to deny this 22 project, is certainly evidence enough to conclude that 23 industrial solar is not wanted here by the majority. 24 I can only trust that this board will 25 hear out this opposition and conclude to deny this 178 1 solar project. 2 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. 3 Questions? 4 Thank you. 5 Madonna Pierce, and up next is James 6 Smith. Or -- it's in cursive; I can't really read the 7 last name. 8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: There are many 9 James that signed up -- 10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: What number? 11 JUDGE ASTA: Thirty-nine. Road is 12 Banning Road, if that helps. 13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You said Banning 14 road? 15 JUDGE ASTA: Yes. BANNINK. That's -- 16 oh, it's a G. 17 Ms. Pierce, are you an intervenor in 18 this case? 19 MS. PIERCE: No, I am not. 20 JUDGE ASTA: Please raise your right 21 hand. 22 // 23 // 24 // 25 // 179 1 WHEREUPON, 2 MADONNA PIERCE, 3 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 4 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 5 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 6 JUDGE ASTA: Can you state your name 7 and spell it for the record. 8 THE WITNESS: My name is Madonna, 9 M-A-D-O-N-N-A, Pierce, P-I-E-R-C-E. 10 JUDGE ASTA: And your address as well 11 as township. 12 THE WITNESS: 20648 Coshocton Road, 13 Mount Vernon, Monroe Township. 14 JUDGE ASTA: And do you live or work in 15 the project area? 16 THE WITNESS: I do not. 17 JUDGE ASTA: You may proceed. 18 DIRECT STATEMENT 19 THE WITNESS: Okay. 20 I struggled with the idea of coming 21 forward because I knew there'd be many, many people 22 who knew all the details about solar who knew all the 23 details about farming. And I do have my own opinions 24 about that, and I did research. But I knew it wasn't 25 going to be as qualified as others. 180 1 In the midst of all of this, in 2 campaigning for our probably-commissioner in the fall, 3 Drenda Keesee, I, with my family, canvassed this whole 4 county. And what -- it wasn't easy to do because I 5 wasn't one to go step out and just do this. But we 6 went house to house. And the point was, it was solar. 7 It wasn't housing. You can throw that 8 in there; it's not housing. Do we have housing 9 problems? Maybe some of us dislike some of it. We 10 need it. Yes, there are other problems in the county, 11 but it's not that. What brought people out was the 12 solar. 13 They were upset because when did this 14 happen? Why do we have no say in it? If our current 15 commissioners that we just voted against had done 16 their job, you probably wouldn't be here tonight. 17 They would have listened and inquired of all of the 18 community. 19 We're not really a divided community. 20 Everybody was very, very respectful and kind, even if 21 they disagreed, but for the most part, everybody did 22 not want it. Every farmer -- I ended up in all the 23 farmer areas, driving through the countryside. 24 They were angry. They were upset. I 25 listened and then we had a conversation. They calmed 181 1 down. And they hoped someone like Drenda would get in 2 and stop this for them. They don't want it. 3 And the other part that I felt I had 4 was besides the people that have come here and 5 retired, they've left Pickerington to move out here to 6 be in the community they used to have before it was 7 taken over by all the other developments. And they 8 shared that with me. And they were considered because 9 this is my retirement home. 10 I had a couple who just retired. A 11 minister. And they invited me into their home and 12 they were concerned because the fields, the beautiful 13 fields across the road from them, had been purchased 14 out of county. And they were supposed to see a house, 15 they thought, go up on it. And nothing happened and 16 nothing happened and nothing happened. 17 So I left there just sharing our 18 brochures, encouraging them to vote. They ran out the 19 door and said, wait, wait. Could you find out if 20 solar is going in there? 21 We have a whole community who does not 22 want their home, their property, their life, to be 23 destroyed with a thing that they invested in, and here 24 they are. Even the people who have been against were 25 kind. They were good. They were nice. 182 1 But this should have been a community 2 thing. This community has a lot of tourism, a lot of 3 activities. A lot of the things that you see in 4 Columbus that are all split up in the different 5 communities. 6 We have a turkey festival on one end. 7 We have the gatherings here in Mount Vernon every 8 summer. Fredericktown has a tomato festival. People 9 come to these things. 10 Schnormier -- I believe that's how you 11 pronounce it -- they have built up out of Gambier, a 12 whole place from this couple's travels from all over 13 the world, and people come from Columbus and all 14 around just to see it. And it's out in the hills up 15 past 229. 16 There are places everywhere here. The 17 Amish have come in and they're part of our community, 18 and we shop with them. They were very concerned. And 19 they got out and they voted because they can only 20 afford small plots here and there. They help each 21 other. And they didn't want that coming into them. 22 So what I'm really saying is, this 23 should have been in the community, stayed in the 24 community. And the people here are aggrieved about 25 it. We can work out our differences, but we need to 183 1 have a voice. And that's what we're asking you for. 2 Thank you. 3 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. 4 Questions? 5 Thank you. 6 James Eck, and up next is Debbie Wells. 7 Are you an intervenor in this case? 8 MR. ECK: No. 9 JUDGE ASTA: Please raise your right 10 hand. 11 WHEREUPON, 12 JAMES ECK, 13 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 14 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 15 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 16 JUDGE ASTA: Please state your name and 17 spell it for the record. 18 THE WITNESS: My name is James Eck. 19 Last name is spelled E-C-K. 20 JUDGE ASTA: And your address -- 21 11155 Banning Road, Mount Vernon. 22 And -- 23 JUDGE ASTA: Do you live or work near 24 the project area? 25 THE WITNESS: Not really close. No. 184 1 JUDGE ASTA: You may proceed. 2 DIRECT STATEMENT 3 THE WITNESS: My wife and I have been 4 residents in Knox County, very close to Mount Vernon, 5 for the last ten years. We came here because we were 6 attracted to the small town, a relatively rural 7 community, well-located near a major airport and close 8 to the basic needs of life. 9 We were here long enough to see a 10 number of companies downsize and move out of the 11 community, which had some pretty devastating effects. 12 We really want to see Knox County and Mount Vernon not 13 only survive but grow. 14 Now, this $40 million first phase of 15 this development, it has some tax credits associated 16 with it. And according to the current law, everything 17 -- pretty much everything that is development cost, 18 the government -- federal government is providing a 19 30 percent tax credits to the developer. 20 Now, where did that money come from? 21 It came from all of our federal taxes. And those 22 taxes are designated nationwide for the development of 23 solar energy. Now, we can choose either by approving 24 this project to get a chunk of that money. 25 And on a $40 billion [sic] dollar 185 1 contract, a 30 percent influx of federal tax dollars 2 would amount to slightly in excess of $13 million. 3 So number one, if we turn this down, 4 we're not only not going to get #13 billion [sic] 5 worth of development funding invested in this 6 community, but all of the taxes that we paid the 7 federal government to support this program is going to 8 go elsewhere, and we get nothing of that money. 9 So I just don't want to see that 10 happen. Okay? And I believe that the solar energy 11 project is a good one. Okay? I've gone over the 12 proposal. Okay? And it will cost Knox County 13 absolutely zero. Okay? 14 It's -- all of the development is being 15 funded by Frasier, okay, and the federal government 16 money. The county is not giving any taxes breaks to 17 them. They're not being given any other kinds of 18 incentives. And just the opposite, the agreement 19 calls for us -- or for Frasier to support local, you 20 know, benefits. Okay. 21 Just quickly, if we're really 22 interested in Knox County development as a whole, we 23 cannot afford to give this county a bad reputation as 24 a county that is not friendly to development. Okay? 25 If we make that mistake, okay, then the opposite is 186 1 true and it'll have lasting impact. 2 JUDGE ASTA: And that's five minutes. 3 Thank you. 4 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 5 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. 6 Any questions? 7 Before you -- thank you, Mr. Eck. And 8 if you have written testimony, you can provide it to 9 the court reporter. 10 Debbie Wells, and up next is Kim Frye. 11 Ms. Wells, are you an intervenor in 12 this case? 13 MS. WELLS: No, I'm not. 14 JUDGE ASTA: Please raise your right 15 hand. 16 WHEREUPON, 17 DEBBIE WELLS, 18 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 19 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 20 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 21 JUDGE ASTA: And could you please state 22 and spell your name for the record. 23 THE WITNESS: Debbie Wells. That's 24 D-E-B-B-I-E, and the last name Wells is W-E-L-L-S. 25 JUDGE ASTA: And your address and 187 1 township? 2 THE WITNESS: Clinton Township. 3 Address is 7237 Sharp Road, Mount Vernon, Ohio 43050. 4 JUDGE ASTA: And do you live or work 5 near the project area? 6 THE WITNESS: Every time I open my 7 blinds, I will see whatever is in that field. 8 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. You may 9 proceed. 10 DIRECT STATEMENT 11 THE WITNESS: Okay. I appreciate the 12 opportunity given by the board to present this 13 testimony. My name is Debbie Van Bremen Wells, and I 14 support the Frasier Solar project. 15 Thirty-two years ago, I was much 16 younger and very excited to build my home on Sharp 17 Road just south of Mount Vernon Ohio. A lot of the 18 excitement was the fact that my father was a masterful 19 builder and we were building my house together. 20 All these years, I have opened the 21 blinds of my living room windows and enjoyed the 22 scenic view of an open field across the road. Now, 23 this will change. But how and why? The land is 24 changing ownership. 25 Multiple units of lower income housing 188 1 or solar panels will fill this place. This will be my 2 view out the front window every day. For this reason, 3 I hope the Ohio Power Siting Board will hear my voice 4 and strongly consider my preferences. 5 I stand in favor of the Frasier Solar 6 project after much consideration, hard consideration, 7 of the benefits and costs to me and my community. It 8 is my choice of the two plans proposed. Despite all 9 the flyers, internet posts, and newspaper articles, I 10 see no reason that is valid or proven to halt the 11 solar project. 12 And I won't go through it, but I would 13 like to present this widely distributed newspaper, 14 that when I looked, I just found a shell of a website 15 page to try -- find who put this. 16 Particularly wanted to present it to 17 the board because it has a, think I should say, 18 Director Ann Vogels picture -- likeness on here. So 19 just wanted to present it to make sure you had that. 20 If this is the best argument for it, I 21 don't see where it's that great of an argument, I mean 22 against it. I don't see where it's that great of any 23 argument. 24 Frasier project and Open Road 25 Renewables have addressed the concerns around the 189 1 project. I have had to guard my own personal emotions 2 and preferences since part of me wishes for no change. 3 I really have enjoyed that view. But things will 4 change. 5 But none of this cancels the right of 6 the property owner to sell his land as he wishes to 7 whom he wishes. I hope and pray we can move forward 8 as individuals, as families, as a community, to 9 embrace this future. 10 The financial benefits to our community 11 our significant. And we can expect relief from taxes 12 and levies. I personally will be looking for that. 13 Why not let the community benefit rather than some 14 landlord line their pockets from housing developments? 15 I respectfully ask the Ohio Power 16 Siting Board to hear the voices clearly of those like 17 myself who will be directly affected by your decisions 18 and that you will approve the Frasier Solar project. 19 Thank you. 20 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. 21 Any questions? 22 CROSS-EXAMINATION 23 BY MR. SETTINERI: 24 Q For the record, you had a flyer; right? Do 25 you know, was that distributed countywide, to your 190 1 knowledge? 2 A I think it was a widely -- widely -- I don't 3 know exactly, but I've seen it everywhere. 4 Q Do you think that contains misinformation to 5 the public? 6 MR. VAN KLEY: Objection. Friendly 7 cross. 8 MR. SETTINERI: Worthwhile for the 9 board to hear, Your Honor. 10 THE REPORTER: Can you come up to the 11 speaker to state your objection? 12 MR. VAN KLEY: This is friendly cross 13 at its extreme, Your Honor. 14 JUDGE HICKS: It is friendly cross. 15 Let's go ahead and move on. 16 MR. SETTINERI: No more questions, Your 17 Honor. 18 CROSS-EXAMINATION 19 BY MR. WIEGEL: 20 Q Did anyone solicit your testimony tonight? 21 A No. I was just made aware of the meeting. 22 And it meant so much to me about what happens across 23 the road from my house that I got on it. 24 Q How much land do you have at your house? 25 A At my land? 191 1 Q Yeah, on your property. 2 A Just under three acres. 3 Q Okay. And is there any easements involved 4 with the project? Is it just, you're looking at it? 5 You don't have any agreements with -- 6 A No. No easements. I haven't had to sign 7 anything for an easement. I just -- literally, it is, 8 I open my blinds and that is the field that it will 9 sit in. 10 Q And then, is there currently a proposal on 11 that land across from you for housing development? 12 A I don't think so. I think that is the 13 alternative plan. 14 Q But there is no proposal to your knowledge? 15 A Just the talk from the neighbors is, if it 16 is not -- if it is not -- the Fraiser project doesn't 17 go forward then the housing development will happen. 18 Q And that's just the rumor? 19 A You could call it that. 20 Q Thank you. 21 A But from people who know the owner of the 22 land. What was his -- I forget his name at his point 23 because I'm nervous, but from people who own the land 24 -- know the owner of the land -- Ramsey. 25 JUDGE ASTA: Kim Frye, and after Kim, 192 1 Nick Bundren. 2 Ms. Frye, are you an intervenor in this 3 case? 4 MS. FRYE: I am not. 5 JUDGE ASTA: Please raise your right 6 hand. 7 WHEREUPON, 8 KIM FRYE, 9 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 10 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 11 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 12 JUDGE ASTA: Please state your name and 13 spell it for the record. 14 THE WITNESS: Kim, K-I-M, Frye, 15 F-R-Y-E. 16 JUDGE ASTA: And your address and 17 township. 18 THE WITNESS: 21530 Newcastle Road, 19 Gambier, Harrison Township. 20 JUDGE ASTA: Do you live or work near 21 the project area? 22 THE WITNESS: I do not. 23 JUDGE ASTA: You may proceed. 24 DIRECT STATEMENT 25 THE WITNESS: I stand before you 193 1 tonight as a native daughter of Mount Vernon. I'm 2 here to advocate for the advancement of utility-scale 3 solar projects in Knox County. 4 As we deliberate on the future of our 5 energy infrastructure, it is imperative to draw 6 insights from history during this unknown time. 7 History teaches us profound lessons, 8 especially regarding the consequences of rejecting 9 knowledge and stifling progress out of inimical fear 10 and self-indulgent reactions to suppress freedoms. 11 Throughout history, we have witnessed 12 the rise of authoritarian regimes and anti-democratic 13 revolutions often marked by a dangerous trend that has 14 echoed uncomfortably locally here in the opposition to 15 Frasier Solar. 16 For the past couple of years, the 17 suppression of knowledge, suspicion of academic 18 pursuits and vilification of scientific inquiry. 19 An instructor of environmental and soil 20 sciences for twenty-some years now, I sometimes 21 encounter the odd student who asks me why we spend 22 time on ethics during science courses. 23 I share with you today what I share 24 with them in these moments. A powerful example very 25 close to my heart: Trofim Lysenko's ill-fated 194 1 influence on Soviet agriculture. 2 Lysenko, backed by the Soviet regime, 3 rejected mainstream genetics in favor of his so-called 4 proletarian science, which imposed purity of Marxist 5 ideals on agricultural understandings to the tune of 6 abject failure. 7 His pseudoscientific ideas not only 8 hindered agricultural progress for political favor but 9 also led to devastating and widespread famine, causing 10 the death of tens of millions of his fellow citizens. 11 Likewise, we cannot overlook China's 12 cultural revolution, a very dark chapter in human 13 history characterized by the demonization of 14 intellectuals and the suppression of knowledge once 15 again deemed incompatible with the anti-democratic 16 ideology. 17 During this tumultuous period again, 18 millions of lives were sacrificed, cultural heritage 19 was destroyed, nature was plundered unrestricted and 20 innovation was stifled all in the name of ideological 21 purity. 22 I witness frighteningly similar anti- 23 democratic behavior on a daily basis in the solar 24 opposition's ill-informed rhetoric that aims to drown 25 out reason with malice at the expense of individual 195 1 freedoms. 2 All because seeking first to understand 3 what you do not know, maintaining open minds and 4 hearts, embracing the difficulties of democracy 5 requires more effort than indulging, inciting, and 6 stoking fear. Do not allow public policies to be 7 dictated by the latter at the individual land rights 8 and strongly supported science. 9 These historical examples underscore a 10 fundamental truth: the rejection of knowledge and 11 suppression of scientific inquiry for any ideological 12 purpose of purity breeds stagnation and unnecessary 13 suffering. 14 As we consider the transition to 15 renewable energy, I urge you to heed these lessons. 16 Embracing utility-scale solar projects in Knox County 17 represents a commitment to progress, innovation, and 18 economic stability. 19 And I want to fight for today even as a 20 large portion of my own family and fellow Knox 21 Countians eschew civil debate, demonstrated tonight, 22 in order to embrace the more easily accessible, 23 unregulated, vociferous, and emotionally immature, and 24 at times violent behavior over this choice. 25 I expect to experience more the same 196 1 just for standing up here now, as I hear their 2 snickers, as they called for the violence as Thom 3 Collier last night. 4 Individual liberties are so valuable to 5 me that I risk y social comfort, my emotional and 6 physical safety in my hometown to speak to you today 7 for solar utility. That's how much I believe in this 8 solar project as a way to protect all of our natural 9 resources, bolster the traditional energy revenue such 10 as our rich natural gas reserves. 11 It is simply false and remiss to pit 12 them against one another at a time when our energy 13 demands are growing exponentially. I ardently echo 14 the calls for an all of the above approach to local 15 energy. Thank you. 16 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. 17 Any questions? 18 Thank you, Ms. Frye. 19 Nick Bundren, and up next is Brenda and 20 Rick McCament. But I'm pretty sure they're 21 intervenors as well. 22 We will come back to you. 23 So after Nick is Sally M. Berger. 24 So Mr. Bundren, are you an intervenor 25 in this case? 197 1 MR. BUNDREN: No, I am not. 2 JUDGE ASTA: Please raise your right 3 hand. 4 WHEREUPON, 5 NICK BUNDREN, 6 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 7 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 8 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 9 JUDGE ASTA: Please state your name and 10 spell it for the record. 11 THE WITNESS: Nick Bundren, N-I-C-K 12 B-U-N-D-R-E-N. 13 JUDGE ASTA: And your address and 14 township. 15 THE WITNESS: I reside at 3754 Sunrise 16 Lake Circle, Columbus, Ohio. 17 JUDGE ASTA: Do you work near the 18 project area? 19 THE WITNESS: I do not. 20 JUDGE ASTA: Please proceed. 21 DIRECT STATEMENT 22 THE WITNESS: Well, good evening, 23 ladies and gentlemen. My name is Nick Bundren, and 24 I'll be speaking on behalf of a nonprofit called the 25 Ohio Land and Liberty Coalition. 198 1 We represent a group of conservatives 2 across the state of Ohio that advocate for property 3 rights and renewable energy. And tonight I'll be 4 speaking about why our property rights should be 5 protected and why this project should be approved. 6 You see, our rights are sacred here in 7 America. It's what keeps us free, and it's what keeps 8 America great in general. Our founding fathers 9 understood this so they enshrined them into our 10 Constitution. This includes the right to acquire, 11 use, and dispose of property without interference from 12 the government. 13 And these property rights are not 14 exclusive. They include things like developing our 15 land for solar. And, folks, there are bad actors all 16 across this great nation that are attempting to 17 restrict our rights on all fronts. 18 Now, whether it be federal officials 19 trying to restrict our gun rights or radicals trying 20 to take away our freedom of speech, it's very clear 21 that our rights are under assault today. 22 We can't allow any of rights to be lost 23 because unfortunately, once they're gone, they do not 24 come back. Allowing our local governments to restrict 25 property rights for landowners just because a group of 199 1 people are upset sets the precedent for far more 2 restrictions later down the road. 3 Imagine a world where the government is 4 telling a landowner that they can't do what they want 5 with their land. That sounds like 1984 to me. And 6 unfortunately, that's what's happening right now all 7 across the state. 8 Just because we do not like solar or we 9 disagree with a farmer developing his or her land does 10 not mean we can restrict or infringe upon those 11 rights. Those rights are given by God and not the 12 government. They cannot be taken or infringed upon. 13 In fact, tonight's hearing is exactly 14 why our founding fathers included the exact term God- 15 given, so that even when a group of people are angrily 16 shouting to take away our rights, they will not be 17 taken away. 18 A vote of approval for this project 19 will be a vote to protect property rights while also 20 being a win for landowners not just here in Knox 21 County but all across our great state. And I hope 22 everyone here understands just how important this 23 hearing tonight really is. 24 Even if we don't like solar, we must 25 support the right to develop land the way the 200 1 landowners see fit. Support property rights. Support 2 our constitution. And support Frasier Solar. 3 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. 4 Any questions? No? 5 Thank you. 6 Sally M. Berger, and up next is Miriam 7 Dean-Otting. 8 Ms. Berger, are you an intervenor in 9 this case? 10 MS. BERGER: No, I am not. 11 JUDGE ASTA: Please raise your right 12 hand. 13 WHEREUPON, 14 SALLY M. BERGER, 15 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 16 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 17 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 18 JUDGE ASTA: Please state your name and 19 spell it for the record. 20 THE WITNESS: My name is Sally Berger, 21 S-A-L-L-Y B-E-R-G-E-R. 22 JUDGE ASTA: And your address and 23 township. 24 THE WITNESS: I live at 115 East 25 Hamtramck Street in Mount Vernon, Ohio. And I believe 201 1 that's Clinton Township, but I'm not positive. 2 JUDGE ASTA: And do you live or work 3 near the project site? 4 THE WITNESS: No, I do not. 5 JUDGE ASTA: Please go ahead. 6 DIRECT STATEMENT 7 THE WITNESS: I've lived in Knox County 8 for 36 years, and retired after 30 years of working 9 with people with developmental disabilities. I'm 10 active in my church and the local music community. 11 I am here to testify in favor of the 12 Frasier Solar project, as we need renewable energy 13 sources that do not harm our environment. This 14 project has a projected 40-year lifespan. 15 During that time, the soil will rest 16 and renew itself by being fallow. And at the end of 17 the project, the land will be suitable to return to 18 agricultural use. 19 I was raised on a dairy farm in 20 northeast Ohio. And I remember seeing the ugly debris 21 piles from abandoned land and unregulated strip mining 22 that left acres of useless land and toxic groundwater. 23 I also believe in individual land 24 rights, and that landowners should be allowed to use 25 their land to generate income as long as it does not 202 1 infringe on the health and safety of their neighbors. 2 As to the argument that it needs to 3 stay as farmland, I would remind others how difficult 4 it has become to earn a living as an individual family 5 farmer. As more and more farmers have to give up 6 farming, their land is going to be sold for housing 7 developments or other uses that will permanently 8 remove those acres from agricultural use. 9 In conclusion, I believe that the 10 Frasier Solar project will benefit Knox County 11 residents in providing jobs, increasing revenues, and 12 creating clean energy. Thank you. 13 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. 14 Any questions? 15 Thank you. 16 Miriam Dean-Otting? 17 Then next up is Jim Heironimus. And 18 then after Jim, Jerry Kelly. 19 Are you an intervenor in this case? 20 MR. HEIRONIMUS: I am not. 21 JUDGE ASTA: Please raise your right 22 hand. 23 // 24 // 25 // 203 1 WHEREUPON, 2 JAMES HEIRONIMUS, 3 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 4 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 5 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 6 JUDGE ASTA: Please state your name and 7 spell it for the record. 8 THE WITNESS: My name is James 9 HEIRONIMUS. Yeah. Not an easy one. 10 JUDGE ASTA: And your address and 11 township. 12 THE WITNESS: 772 Highland Hills Drive, 13 Howard Township. 14 JUDGE ASTA: And do you live or work in 15 the project area? 16 THE WITNESS: I do not. 17 JUDGE ASTA: You may proceed. 18 DIRECT STATEMENT 19 THE WITNESS: Good evening. Thank you. 20 I'm retired Air Force, and I've been a 21 member -- a resident of the Knox County for over 18 22 years. I'm currently Ohio Certified volunteer 23 naturalist and I work part time at the Brown Family 24 Environmental Center as a environmental educator. 25 I'm speaking briefly. Many things have 204 1 already been said, and I will spare the audience and 2 everyone. 3 But just briefly, to mention a few 4 points, I would like to speak in favor of the Frasier 5 Solar project because this is an effort that will 6 boost the county's power supply using an 7 environmentally positive and renewable power source. 8 And I think that's important. 9 What I've seen in a significant influx 10 in this whole issue, which is an exceptionally 11 relevant issue with very good points pro and con, 12 worthy of discussion. But what I've seen that's been 13 very disheartening is an influx of misinformation, 14 unfounded speculation, and hyperbole. 15 And that's unfortunate because it 16 prevents us from having a realistic discussion of this 17 very important topic for the county. That said, I'll 18 just mention one point of many that I had wanted to 19 say. 20 The issue of subsidies keeps coming up. 21 And hopefully everyone realizes that there are a 22 number of industries that are subsidized in this 23 country. The United States does this in an effort to 24 promote what they feel are needed ventures. 25 So renewables have definitely been a 205 1 focus of this of late. But for many, many years, the 2 oil and gas industry have received subsidies. Just 3 last year, between 10 to 50 billion dollars of 4 subsidies went to oil and gas. 5 And I don't see that as a bad or a 6 good. It's just if the government sees the need for 7 it, it is supporting those needs. And that's what 8 subsidies are. 9 What happens with them, well, that's 10 what here to try to help with too. I would like to 11 say I'm skipping over many points. 12 As far as aesthetics, I can't speak 13 completely to the environmental issues as much as I 14 would like to and as much as that's a great interest 15 to me. But I will tell you I've not been able to 16 study all of the aspects of that to soundly comment. 17 But as far as aesthetics, I do know 18 that the plans that I've read online and seen proposed 19 look very good as far as the plantings that are 20 proposed. Barrier plantings, overall appearance of 21 the area, and posing reasonable distances between any 22 of the solar panels and surrounding roads and 23 properties. 24 I will conclude just saying solar 25 energy, it's a renewable energy that does not add 206 1 carbon-based pollutants to our air. It offers 2 multiple benefits for our growing energy needs in Knox 3 County, especially with whatever the impending influx 4 will be from neighboring projects such as Amazon and 5 Intel that our knocking on our door. 6 Economically, it would be a boost, as 7 has been mentioned by others. And energy-wise, it 8 would provide our county with needed diversification 9 of energy sources. I thank you for this opportunity 10 to speak. 11 JUDGE ASTA: Any questions? 12 Mr. Van Kley? 13 CROSS-EXAMINATION 14 BY MR. VAN KLEY: 15 Q Have you visited any of the other solar 16 facilities that have been built in Ohio to check out 17 the plantings that they put around them -- Hillcrest? 18 A That is a very -- that's a very good 19 question. I have not seen their plantings. 20 Q So you haven't seen the plantings, if there 21 are any, around the Hillcrest facility owned by Open 22 Roads? 23 A No. The only project I was studying was 24 this one. 25 MR. VAN KLEY: Okay. Thank you. 207 1 MR. SETTINERI: Your Honor, I just 2 object to that last question based on 3 mischaracterizing the ownership of the Hillcrest 4 project. Thank you. It's not owned by Open Road. 5 JUDGE ASTA: It's noted. Thank you. 6 MR. SETTINERI: Thank you. 7 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. 8 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 9 JUDGE ASTA: And if you have written 10 testimony that you'd like to provide, you may do so. 11 THE WITNESS: Thank you. No. You 12 couldn't read it if you wanted. 13 JUDGE ASTA: Okay. Thank you. 14 Jerry Kelly, and up next, Felicia 15 Allen. 16 Mr. Kelly, are you an intervenor in 17 this case? 18 MR. KELLY: I am not. 19 JUDGE ASTA: Please raise your right 20 hand. 21 WHEREUPON, 22 JERRY KELLY, 23 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 24 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 25 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 208 1 JUDGE ASTA: And please state your name 2 and spell it for the record. 3 THE WITNESS: My name is Jerry Kelly, 4 J-E-R-R-Y K-E-L-L-Y. 5 JUDGE ASTA: And your address and 6 township. 7 THE WITNESS: My address is 402 Chase 8 Avenue in Gambier. That is College Township. 9 JUDGE ASTA: And do you live or work 10 near the project area? 11 THE WITNESS: I do not. 12 JUDGE ASTA: You may proceed. 13 DIRECT STATEMENT 14 THE WITNESS: I'd like to speak in 15 support of the Fraiser project. Farmers who choose to 16 harvest sunlight energy along with row crops and 17 livestock should be free to do so on their own land. 18 Solar can preserve farmland from 19 suburban-style development that would eliminate any 20 future farming on that land. Farmland preservation is 21 better served by solar than by those other forms of 22 development. 23 PV solar is a proven transitional 24 technology that can help us solve our energy dilemma 25 and provide us with cleaner power. To me, that 209 1 represents progress, and I support it. 2 Thank you for hearing us and for the 3 work you do to ensure a stable and secure Ohio grid. 4 We trust in your good faith and best judgment. Thank 5 you. 6 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. 7 Any questions. 8 Mr. Van Kley? 9 CROSS-EXAMINATION 10 BY MR. VAN KLEY: 11 Q What's your occupation? 12 A I am retired. And I teach part time at 13 Kenyon College. 14 Q What do you teach? 15 A I teach a solar power course. That's funny. 16 You should learn something about it. 17 JUDGE ASTA: Mr. Kelly, one moment. 18 CROSS-EXAMINATION 19 BY MR. WIEGEL: 20 Q So you said you teach a solar power course 21 at Kenyon college. 22 A Correct. 23 Q Did you request any of your students file 24 public comments in this matter? 25 A No. 210 1 Q Do you know if any of your students did file 2 public comments in this matter? 3 A I'm not sure. They may have. They were 4 exposed to both sides of this issue. 5 Q Okay. And there was no incentive to support 6 or -- in favor or against the project? 7 A That's correct. 8 MR. WIEGEL: Okay. Thank you. 9 JUDGE ASTA: Any further questions? 10 BY MR. WIEGEL: 11 Q Do you know if your course is contributed to 12 our funded by the Frasier, Open Roads or the solar 13 energy industry at all? 14 A It is not. It is not. 15 Q Thank you. 16 A Thank you. 17 JUDGE ASTA: Felicia Allen, and up 18 next is Flint -- 6017 Sharp Road. 19 You can wait right there. I just 20 wanted to make sure I got your name. You're up next. 21 But first, Felicia Allen. 22 Are you an intervenor in this case? 23 MS. ALLEN: No. 24 JUDGE ASTA: Please raise your right 25 hand. 211 1 WHEREUPON, 2 FELICIA ALLEN, 3 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 4 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 5 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 6 JUDGE ASTA: Please state your name 7 and spell it for the record. 8 THE WITNESS: My name is Felicia Allen. 9 It's F-E-L-I-C-I-A A-L-L-E-N. 10 JUDGE ASTA: And your address as well 11 as township. 12 THE WITNESS: Address is 1319 Mound 13 Street. And that is in Clay Township in Portsmouth, 14 Ohio. 15 JUDGE ASTA: Do you -- 16 THE WITNESS: I do not. 17 JUDGE ASTA: You don't work -- 18 THE WITNESS: No, I do not. 19 JUDGE ASTA: You may go ahead. 20 DIRECT STATEMENT 21 THE WITNESS: So I am an Ohio solar 22 worker. I've been working solar in Ohio since 2020. 23 And jobs like this -- like, I depend on jobs like this 24 feed to my family. I understand that, you know, this 25 is your guys's community, but there's been a lot of 212 1 misinformation that's been spread. 2 It's easy to get misinformation when 3 it's new. And I understand this is all new to 4 everybody. You know, like, this is going to help your 5 community so much. There's going to be -- there's 6 people out there that work at Taco Bell right now. 7 You know, and they're -- they can't make ends meet, 8 you know. 9 But jobs like this come in and you can 10 build careers out of jobs like this. Like, I'm 40 11 years old. I've lived in Ohio all my life, and I've 12 been under the poverty line for 37 years. You know, 13 like, jobs like this, it helps people. And that's why 14 I'm here. 15 And I want people to know that, like, 16 once the project is approved, it doesn't just stop 17 there. Like, the Siting Board doesn't just say, 18 "okay," and leave. Like, there's regulations on 19 everything from start to finish. Like, that's why we 20 have these rules in place. 21 That way, these projects can get built 22 and be built the right way for the community and for 23 everybody 'cause we have to have something 24 sustainable. These fossil fuels aren't going to work 25 forever. 213 1 And we have to find an alternate 2 source. And from what I've seen from where I've 3 started in solar to now, the rules have changed. 4 Like, we all have to start somewhere. 5 And maybe the beginning wasn't the best, but we're 6 trying every year to make it better. And we're trying 7 to make it better for everybody. Like, I'd like to 8 see -- I'd like to leave something to my future 9 generations. And that's all I have. 10 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. Before you -- 11 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 12 JUDGE ASTA: Any questions? 13 CROSS-EXAMINATION 14 BY MR. WIEGEL: 15 Q Can you explain a little bit about what you 16 do as a solar worker? 17 A Yeah, I work out in the field. I actually 18 build these farms, industrial solar farms. 19 Q Okay. So once a project is finished that 20 you've built, you need another solar farm to come to 21 continue your work? 22 A Yes. Operations and maintenance, they 23 usually keep five to ten people all the time. 24 Q Okay. In Knox County job creation, you 25 would come into the build it and go back to 214 1 Portsmouth? 2 A I would, but I'd spending half of my money 3 in your county and all of my money would stay in the 4 state of Ohio because I would still keep my house in 5 Portsmouth but I would and come and stay at your hotel 6 in Knox County. 7 And I would use your gas stations, and I 8 would use your Walmarts, or just whatever you have 9 here. So half of my money is going to go to your 10 county. 11 Like, we did two projects -- by Cincinnati, 12 and there was a, just, little gas station, didn't have 13 to sell gas anymore because we made a million dollars 14 in a year. Like, there -- it stimulates the economy. 15 Like, it's better than nothing. 16 Q Until you leave though. 17 A Right. But I'm always in the state of Ohio, 18 so no matter what, my dollars stay in the state. So 19 every -- I hear everybody talk about quality of life, 20 but what about the workers' quality of life? 21 You know, I would rather stay in the state 22 of Ohio and work and my money stay in the state than 23 having to go out of state and look for work. I have 24 small children. 25 You know, like, this is the best job 215 1 opportunity that I've ever had in my life, and I don't 2 want to lose it. And I think that it would benefit 3 the community a lot. 4 Q And then my last question is, can you 5 confirm that the long-term jobs, it's just five to 6 ten -- 7 A Don't quote me on that. I can't say that 8 for sure. But I just know that there's -- the more 9 projects than -- see, so Ohio has a domicile form in, 10 like, you have to have 70 percent Ohio residents to do 11 these jobs. So my big thing is the money stays in 12 Ohio. It stays in the community. That's it. 13 Q Thank you. 14 A Yeah. 15 JUDGE ASTA: And I believe it's Clint? 16 Is that correct? 17 MR. BYWATERS: No, ma'am. 18 JUDGE ASTA: Please raise your right 19 hand. 20 WHEREUPON, 21 ROBERT BYWATERS, 22 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 23 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 24 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 25 JUDGE ASTA: Please state your name 216 1 and spell it for the record. 2 THE WITNESS: Robert Bywaters, 3 B-Y-W-A-T-E-R-S. 6017 Sharp Road, Mount Vernon, 4 Miller Township. 5 JUDGE ASTA: And do you live or work 6 near the project site? 7 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am. 8 JUDGE ASTA: You may proceed. 9 DIRECT STATEMENT 10 THE WITNESS: And I am opposed to the 11 Frasier Solar project. My wife and I love the beauty 12 of our rural landscape and observing the sunrise and 13 sunset over the fields. I worked hard to obtain my 14 land, same for neighbors. We would have to see it 15 replaced with solar panels, especially for the next 40 16 years. 17 Research says panels do not even have a 18 40-year lifespan. Wildlife would be impacted. 19 Inverter noise could be heard for up to a 1-mile 20 radius. We'll have two inverters that we'll be able 21 to listen to all the time. 22 There is a concern for hazardous waste 23 such as cadmium and lead and for runoff. Concern for 24 what would happen if the company defaulted. Our land 25 value will decrease. 217 1 I thank you for your consideration, 2 especially since this arrangement was in the works 3 long before any of the landowners who would be 4 negatively affected were made aware, so we could 5 respond in a timely manner. 6 It is apparent that some people will 7 stand to make a lot of money, but the landowner has 8 much to lose. Thank you. 9 JUDGE ASTA: Thank you. 10 Any questions for this witness? 11 Thank you, Mr. Bywaters. 12 With that, we are going to take a brief 13 ten-minute break. And we will come back right back, 14 and we will pick up with Scott Patterson, 51. 15 THE REPORTER: Okay. We are going off 16 the record at 9:15 p.m. 17 (Off the record.) 18 THE REPORTER: We are back on the 19 record at 9:30 p.m. 20 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Folks, we are 21 officially back on the record. I have an announcement 22 to make that there's just a mathematical reality that 23 we have the building until a little before midnight. 24 We have had 43 witnesses thus far. And we have signed 25 up somewhere north of 140. 218 1 So there is just a reality that we are 2 not going to be able to get everyone in before we are 3 forced to vacate the building tonight. 4 And keeping in mind that we want to 5 allow everyone the opportunity to testify that has 6 signed up to testify, we just wanted to announce that 7 we will plan to hold a second local public hearing. 8 Thank you. 9 Don't have any details on that on that 10 moment as obviously we are going to have to facilitate 11 where it will be, what time it will be. But we will 12 ensure that there is sufficient notice given out to 13 everyone as to when that will occur, what time it will 14 occur, where it will occur. 15 And just to reiterate, if you have 16 signed up to testify tonight and you are not able to 17 testify tonight or we don't get to you tonight, the 18 plan would be that at this second public meeting that 19 will be scheduled you will then have the opportunity 20 to testify. And we will proceed as we have done 21 tonight. 22 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 98: So do we all 23 have to sit here to find out whether or not we're 24 going get to speak by midnight? I'm number 98. Is 25 there a reason to -- 219 1 JUDGE HICKS: There's no chance you're 2 going to get to speak tonight before midnight. 3 And frankly, we have to be out of here 4 at midnight. So it's about 11:30 we're going to have 5 to start to shut things -- 6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: -- 75 go home? 7 JUDGE HICKS: I'm sorry? 8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Number 98 you 9 said could go home. Could number 75 go home? 10 JUDGE HICKS: Yes. It -- 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: A lot of people 12 have left, sir. 13 JUDGE HICKS: Yeah. That's what I'm 14 saying. If you are signed up to testify -- if you 15 have to leave at this point -- if you are signed up to 16 testify, you will have the opportunity to testify at 17 the second local public hearing. 18 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The question is, 19 will you start where you left off tonight? 20 JUDGE ASTA: Yes. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Yes. That would be the 22 intention. Same order, wherever we end tonight. 23 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: If everybody 24 takes five minutes that's left, that's about 20-ish 25 more people. So if you know your number, like 75, 220 1 you're probably -- 2 JUDGE HICKS: I can see Mr. Settineri 3 has a question. 4 MR. SETTINERI: You read me well. 5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Microphone. 6 MR. SETTINERI: Sure. For the next 7 public hearing, is it -- we're just going to finish 8 the sign-up sheet? 9 JUDGE HICKS: Correct. It's folks that 10 are signed up to testify tonight. 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And no one else? 12 JUDGE HICKS: Correct. 13 MR. SETTINERI: And does it make sense 14 for anyone who has a longer drive to just testify now? 15 Just a common courtesy. 16 MR. WIEGEL: Just as a possible 17 recommendation, could we just set a time, 11:30 or 18 11:15 so that anyone who knows that they want to 19 leave, and that'll just cutoff so we're not dealing 20 with numbers and math? 21 JUDGE HICKS: Yes. 11:30, we are not 22 taking any more testimony. 23 MR. WIEGEL: Perfect. Thank you. 24 JUDGE HICKS: The midnight is, we need 25 to be out of here at midnight. So facilitate cleanup, 221 1 folks getting out of the building, we're going to cut 2 it off at 11:30. 3 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: If somebody 4 leaves and missed their turn -- 5 JUDGE HICKS: If they are signed up, 6 they can testify at the next hearing. 7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Just a point of 8 clarification, what counts as sufficient notice for 9 the next meeting? 10 JUDGE HICKS: I'm sorry? 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: As a point of 12 clarification, what counts as sufficient notice for 13 the next meeting please? 14 JUDGE HICKS: So that, I mean, we're -- 15 it's a little bit of uncharted territory here. We're 16 going to have to discuss that, frankly. It's not -- 17 let me put it this way, it's -- the -- 18 THE REPORTER: I don't know how I'm 19 going to be able to note all of the speakers who are 20 yelling from the office. So I just want to be clear 21 about that. 22 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Her question was 23 what will be the notice. It is not going to be a 24 situation where it's Friday, is what I'm telling you. 25 We're going to have to be able to secure a venue and 222 1 plan for folks to be able to attend, counsel to 2 attend, folks up here to attend. 3 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So is April 29th 4 still going to go on? 5 JUDGE HICKS: I'm not sure we know at 6 this point. Yeah. The reality is, it may get pushed. 7 Mr. Settineri may not feel one way or another on that, 8 but it's likely that that would need to get pushed in 9 order to facilitate enough time to have another public 10 hearing. 11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Keep going. 12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Let's go. 13 JUDGE HICKS: So Scott Patterson is up. 14 On deck is Susan Moore, who I believe is an 15 intervenor. 16 Mr. Van Kley? Moore? 17 MR. VAN KLEY: What's the last name? 18 JUDGE HICKS: Moore. 19 MR. VAN KLEY: Yes, she's an 20 intervenor. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. So she will go 22 onto the list for circling back to intervenors. So on 23 deck will be Ron Cameron. 24 Mr. Patterson, are you an intervenor in 25 the case? 223 1 MR. PATTERSON: I am not. 2 JUDGE HICKS: Please raise your right 3 hand. 4 WHEREUPON, 5 SCOTT PATTERSON, 6 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 7 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 8 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 9 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 10 your name for the record. 11 THE WITNESS: Scott Patterson, 12 S-C-O-T-T P-A-T-T-E-R-S-O-N. And my address is 21530 13 Newcastle Road. That's Harrison Township. I do not 14 live nor work in the area. 15 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 16 DIRECT STATEMENT 17 THE WITNESS: So we've heard a lot of 18 testimony from the people against this venture. And 19 there seems to be some, like, weird undercurrent that 20 it is somehow an outside interest that is trying to 21 get their paws into Knox County. 22 And as Knox County born, bred here, 23 grew up here, my whole life here, making my life here, 24 continue to be here, I take great offense to that. I 25 am from Knox County. I am of Knox County. I will be 224 1 in Knox County for the rest of my days. 2 I teach at the high school here, where 3 I have vested interest in not just what happens during 4 my lifetime but the next lifetime, the next lifetime, 5 the next seven generations. That's who I'm interested 6 in. That's who I'm here to speak for today. 7 If we're looking at farmland, I'm 8 surrounded by farms. There are two separate 9 cornfields within view of my house. I hear cows at 10 night from the Old Horton's cow farm. 11 Already, we've lost at least six acres 12 that I've seen, turned into two separate new houses. 13 This idea that we are competing for either having the 14 farm still or having a solar field is not reality. 15 If we put a housing development on this 16 land, on average, it takes about 500 years to a 17 thousand years to build one inch of new good soil. 18 Anybody that's farmed will tell you, if you don't have 19 at least 18, and that's going to be skimming it, good 20 luck. 21 If we pave over that farmland, if we 22 build housing developments on it, not only will the 23 runoff be worse than anything else that it could 24 possibly be turned into, but it will never be farmland 25 again, probably not ever, probably not in any of our 225 1 descendant's lifetimes. 2 Just looking at the size of the 3 installation. We're going 225 to 250 megawatt-hours 4 per year. 5 So little bit of napkin math: if it 6 takes about 1.14 pounds of coal to make one kilowatt 7 hour, we're looking at, with the price of coal being 8 about .15 cents per pound, we're looking at AEP 9 spending 3.8 to 4.2 million dollars less on coal to 10 power our houses with that solar array going in in the 11 Frasier. 12 Those are savings they could pass along 13 to us. That's not even accounting for the fact that 14 we get to keep the tax revenue. We get to keep that 15 land in the hands of the farmers. The farmers are not 16 selling land; they are leasing the land. 17 I have a vested interest in this 18 community, and that is in the best interest of this 19 community. I would love for it to stay farmland. I 20 think we all want it to stay farmland. 21 But what we're doing right here, it 22 really feels like the opposition is trying to cut off 23 our own nose to spite our face. I don't want to look 24 at solar panels. I want to look at a cornfield. I 25 want it to be that way forever. It's not going to be. 226 1 If we're talking about food, I don't 2 know about you guys, but I don't eat a lot of field 3 corn. I'm not a big soy boy either. Now, I do 4 understand that about a third of the corn grown in 5 this county goes directly into the production of E85. 6 I don't eat that either. 7 On average, about half the corn 8 produced in our county is going to feed. The rest of 9 it gets directly exported to Asia. A large amount of 10 it, likely to China. That is what we're doing with 11 these fields. 12 I've heard people talk about the pride 13 in the local stickers at the grocery store. When you 14 see the I'm local sticker on a store, just so you guys 15 know, that could come from Michigan, which is, by the 16 way, the "I'm local" apples that you get at 17 Kroger -- they're Michigan apples. 18 Kentucky, Tennessee, even down to 19 Georgia. Most of the produce you buy at the store 20 comes from either California or Florida. If you're 21 not buying produce at the local farmers market, you 22 are not buying local produce. 23 We need to diversify our energy needs. 24 And we need to diversify our land use. It is the only 25 way forward. Things are changing and Knox County is 227 1 changing with it. 2 I understand what we have here with 3 Frasier is a half measure. Having the option for 4 solar plus having sheep on it is not going to be as 5 great as just having another sheep farm, or even 6 better yet an actual farm. 7 But I feel like it is an adequate 8 compromise that I think we should approve, because we 9 need to let the farmers do what they need to do to 10 keep the land in their family, in the family of Knox 11 County citizens. Thank you. 12 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 13 Any questions from counsel? 14 Thank you for your testimony. 15 Up next is, I believe it's Ron Cameron. 16 MR. CAMERON. Right here. I'm here. 17 JUDGE HICKS: On deck is David Godwin. 18 Mr. Cameron, are you an intervenor in 19 the case? 20 MR. CAMERON: No, I'm not. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Can you please 22 raise your right hand. 23 // 24 // 25 // 228 1 WHEREUPON, 2 RON CAMERON, 3 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 4 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 5 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 6 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please state 7 and spell your name for the record. 8 THE WITNESS: My name is Ron Cameron, 9 R-O-N C-A-M-E-R-O-N. 7419 Sharp Road, Mount Vernon. 10 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 11 in the project area? 12 THE WITNESS: I live right across from 13 a hundred acres of proposed solar panels. Yeah. 14 JUDGE HICKS: Please go ahead with your 15 testimony. 16 DIRECT STATEMENT 17 THE WITNESS: I've lived in Knox County 18 for 51 years. I'm in favor of the Frasier Solar 19 project. I've lived on Sharp Road for 46 years. And 20 I haven't seen much change in all that time. But I do 21 love farmland. 22 By the way, Mr. Patterson, who preceded 23 me, he's a hard one to follow because I think he 24 stated a lot of good facts. 25 But if t he solar project doesn't 229 1 succeed, the 100 acres right across from me is 2 currently zoned for planned neighborhood development. 3 And under planned neighborhood development, six to 4 eight residences per acre could be constructed. That 5 translates on a hundred acres to 600 to 800 6 residences. 7 Think about the cars, people, noise, 8 the entire complexion of the area where I've lived for 9 46 years would change. The hundred acres will never 10 be farmland again. 11 With solar, it can be farmland and 12 solar for the next thirty-five-plus years, since sheep 13 can graze around the panels. 14 Secondly, in this whole situation, the 15 issue of property rights needs to be considered. And 16 that's already been talked about a lot, so I'm not 17 going to explain any more about it. But a farmer 18 can't decide what he wants to do with his own land? 19 Again, I'm in favor of the solar 20 project. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 22 Any questions from counsel? 23 Thank you for your testimony. 24 Up next is David Godwin, and on deck is 25 John Norris. 230 1 Mr. Godwin, are you an intervenor in 2 the case? 3 MR. GODWIN: No. 4 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 5 right hand. 6 WHEREUPON, 7 DAVID GODWIN, 8 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 9 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 10 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 11 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 12 spell your name for the record. 13 THE WITNESS: David, D-A-V-I-D, Godwin, 14 G-O-D-W-I-N. 15 JUDGE HICKS: And your address 16 including township? 17 THE WITNESS: 7093 Sharp Road. And I 18 live in Clinton Township. 19 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 20 in the project area? 21 THE WITNESS: Yes. Across the street 22 from me is a big planned solar field. 23 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 24 with your testimony. 25 // 231 1 DIRECT STATEMENT 2 THE WITNESS: Okay. I've lived on 3 Sharp Road in southern Knox County for 38 years. I've 4 been living right across the street from a big 5 cornfield which the farmers plant every May and then 6 return in October and harvest the corn. 7 A couple years ago, Frasier Solar 8 representatives came to me and asked me what I thought 9 about if they plant solar panels across the street 10 from me. And they explained everything in whole -- 11 and the whole program in detail. 12 I met with the solar representatives to 13 get more information on what they were going to do and 14 I found out that their plan was very beneficial to our 15 community. 16 When corn is planted in May, it grows 17 until October. Then it's harvested, and then the 18 ground sits vacant for six months out of the year 19 until next spring and they'll plant corn again. So 20 you only get six months out of the cornfield, and it 21 has to sit empty. 22 When the solar panels are planted, they 23 absorb the sun's rays every day for 365 days a year. 24 The sunrays are then converted to electricity every 25 day, which will -- they'll produce enough energy to 232 1 power up approximately 14,000 homes. I think that's a 2 pretty good deal. 3 We all need electricity for our homes 4 and for our businesses. We all depend on electricity 5 for everything. Solar panels are clean-running, 6 renewable, and run silently. A lot of people say they 7 make a lot of humming sound. Well, from the research 8 I've did, they do make a very slight sound, but not 9 something you're going to hear for many distances. 10 Frasier Solar reps have put their plans 11 in writing and with pictures, graphs, and details on 12 their installation, landscaping, sharing their profits 13 with the city of Mount Vernon, Clinton Township, and 14 Miller Township. 15 Our community is growing every year 16 with new houses and businesses. We need more 17 electricity to keep our community operating. I'm 18 asking you all to help us keep our community growing 19 and operating by letting Frasier Solar produce more 20 electricity for our homes and businesses. I thank 21 you. 22 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 23 Any questions? 24 // 25 // 233 1 CROSS-EXAMINATION 2 BY MR. VAN KLEY: 3 Q Have you signed a good neighbor agreement 4 with the solar company? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Okay. And are you getting paid money for 7 doing that? 8 A I don't want to talk about my personal 9 ventures with them. 10 Q Well, it's a simple question. I'm not going 11 to ask you how much you're getting. I just want to 12 know whether you're getting some money -- 13 A Well, I think -- I think if you look on the 14 website, you know all the good neighbor agreements, 15 there is some money transacted. 16 Q So does that mean you're getting money for 17 it? 18 A For the good neighbor? Yes. 19 Q Okay. With regard to your comments about 20 the sound from a solar facility, have you ever visited 21 the Hillcrest solar facility to listen there, listen 22 for yourself how much sound is coming from that 23 facility? 24 A No. But those facilities are older. The 25 new ones here are going to probably work a lot more 234 1 efficiently just like new cars work more efficiently. 2 So I'm not an expert on that. 3 Q Okay. Let's talk about a newer one, then. 4 How about the Hardin solar facility. Have you gone 5 out there and listened to that one? 6 A No. 7 MR. VAN KLEY: Okay. Thank you. 8 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you for your 9 testimony. 10 Up next is John Norris, and on deck is 11 -- I'll take a shot: Merlin Thirion-Gueltas. If I'm 12 even close, you're own deck. 13 Mr. Norris, are you an intervenor in 14 the case? 15 MR. NORRIS: Pardon? 16 JUDGE HICKS: Are you an intervenor in 17 the case? 18 MR. NORRIS: No. 19 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 20 right hand. 21 WHEREUPON, 22 JOHN NORRIS, 23 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 24 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 25 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 235 1 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 2 your name for the record. 3 THE WITNESS: Okay. I'm not totally 4 against solar -- 5 JUDGE HICKS: Hold on, sir. I need you 6 to state and spell your name for the court reporter. 7 THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry. And my 8 address -- 9 JUDGE HICKS: Spell your name for the 10 court reporter, please. 11 THE WITNESS: J-O-H-N N-O-R-R-I-S. 12 10444 Monroe Mills Road, Gambier, Harrison Township. 13 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 14 in the project area? 15 THE WITNESS: No, I do not. 16 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 17 DIRECT STATEMENT 18 THE WITNESS: Okay. I'm not totally 19 against solar. In fact, I've had solar put on my barn 20 roof here in December. But what I am against is 21 putting solar on our farmland. I think there's 22 alternatives. 23 I was approached by several companies. 24 They were what you call community solar, not this 25 industrial solar. And I wasn't approached your 236 1 outfit. But I thought I had the perfect place. 2 My farm is on a hillside, and my farm 3 slopes to the south. And I thought this is kind of 4 waste land. It would a prime opportunity to put solar 5 on not-prime farmland. And I thought sheep would 6 actually do better on a hillside than on this 7 flatland. 8 But I'm against -- yes. Farmland is 9 the strength of our country. And I oppose, for that 10 reason. And the other thing, we've had two 11 experiences with big companies on our own farm. 12 We had a -- when my grandfather bought 13 the farm, there was a railroad went through the farm. 14 And their agreement when they bought the land was to 15 build fence. 16 Well, they -- it just -- you couldn't 17 get them to build fence. Finally, the county, thank 18 goodness, bought the railroad bed and put in a bike 19 path. And the county, being a good neighbor, they 20 built new fence on anyone that wanted fence for their 21 livestock. 22 The county did care about their -- the 23 land -- the landowners, which appeared to me the 24 railroad did not. 25 Then we had a -- also, we had a high 237 1 tensile power line went through our property. And 2 when they went through, they told my father that the 3 tower would be in the pasture field. 4 And so when they came to put the tower 5 in, they put it right in the corner of the farm field. 6 And my dad said, you supposed to put that in the 7 pasture field. 8 He said, "Did you read the fine print?" 9 That -- "We got the right to move that tower so many 10 feet either way." So my experience -- my personal 11 experience with large companies coming in, they don't 12 always agree to what they say they are. 13 I'm not saying anything about Frasier 14 Solar, but my experience from that past. And when 15 they wanted to put solar on my prime farmland, 16 farmland that I tore out fences to make it one 17 field --there was five fields -- farmland that I put 18 tile -- systematically tiled on, they wanted my best 19 land for solar. 20 And I was not -- that was the end. I 21 wasn't going to do that. That's all I've got to say. 22 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 23 Any questions? 24 Thank you for your testimony. 25 So for the person who was on deck, if 238 1 it helps with my mispronunciation, the address is 102 2 Gaskin Avenue. Okay. We will move on. Next on the 3 list is Nick Redmond. Brittany Redmond? 4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: They had to 5 leave earlier. 6 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Thank you. 7 Steve Rex Sr.? 8 Jack Wessels? 9 Amy Rowley? 10 And next on the list is Ashley Labaki. 11 845 Sunset Avenue, if that helps. 12 Are you an intervenor in the case? 13 MS. ROWLEY: No. 14 JUDGE HICKS: Please raise your right 15 hand. 16 WHEREUPON, 17 AMY ROWLEY, 18 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 19 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 20 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 21 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 22 your name for the record. 23 THE WITNESS: Amy Rowley, A-M-Y 24 R-O-W-L-E-Y. Address is 4810 Range Line Road, Mount 25 Vernon, Ohio. It's Morgan Township, which is right on 239 1 that division line, you know, Miller Township is right 2 across the road. 3 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. So -- 4 THE WITNESS: So I do live right across 5 the street from where a project is going to be. In 6 fact, our property will surround three sides or a 7 large portion that borders on Range Line, Sycamore, 8 and Lafayette. 9 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 10 DIRECT STATEMENT 11 THE WITNESS: I'm opposed to the 12 Frasier Solar project. My husband and I purchased our 13 farm in 1989, and with God's provision, family, and a 14 lot of blood, sweat, and tears, we grew it into what 15 it is today. 16 And as I said, it surround three sides 17 of the project tract on Sycamore, Range Line, and 18 Lafayette. 19 We've completed several projects on our 20 farm in compliance with the Knox County Soil and Water 21 Conservation District. Those are all on file if you 22 want to confirm that. It was grass waterways, tile 23 projects, and conservatory tillage efforts. 24 We did that because we also believe in 25 those systems to preserve our farm ground, preserve 240 1 our community for our future generations. 2 We're all called to be good stewards of 3 the land, and I believe that firmly. I'm very 4 concerned about our health and our immediate 5 environment and beyond as to what the extent of harm 6 these solar panels and supporting structures may do. 7 For instance, after a heavy rainfall, 8 we have much flooding that crosses the road at Range 9 Line in front of our house in two places. I have 10 pictures that I will submit from Tuesday's storm. 11 The stream flows directly into the 12 Sycamore Creek that flows south into Licking County 13 and into the North Fork Licking River and beyond. 14 So you can see the effects of just the 15 runoff from whatever is coming those solar panels and 16 whatever would happen in tornadoes, hail, that we've 17 experienced recently -- not the tornadoes but it can 18 happen and go into the water and way on down far- 19 reaching effects. 20 I'm also concerned about the loss of 21 our property values. We want to keep our farm in a 22 family -- in our family and operational. With the 23 environmental impacts, damage to our tile system, and 24 loss of natural resources, it'll make it difficult for 25 future generations to succeed. 241 1 Our son, his wife, and three precious 2 little children will be almost completely surrounded 3 by these solar panels. This will definitely have an 4 impact on their property value as well as all of us in 5 the area. 6 And then there's the noise level. 7 Roche from Open Road sat at my kitchen table, told me 8 that the noise level would be a problem. The solar 9 panels themselves don't make noise, but they require 10 inverters and they're very large. 11 And that is what makes the sound. And 12 it's like loud locusts. So she admitted to me that 13 the noise would be a problem even with the setback 14 from our son's home and our home, it would be very 15 loud. 16 And she agreed it would just be a 17 problem. And she had no solution for it. And that 18 will be right behind my son and daughter-in-law's 19 house. And who knows what that noise will have as an 20 effect on our wildlife. 21 And I just want to mention a little 22 something about the whole sheep grazing idea, speaking 23 of the animals. Anyone that's ever owned a sheep, 24 which I have had -- growing up, we had sheep -- 25 they're the -- not very smart animal. 242 1 They need a shepherd. They will stick 2 their head in whatever they can. They're going to 3 stick their heads in these -- the solar panels turn. 4 They invert. So that needs that inverter to make that 5 work. 6 So they're moving. These sheep are 7 going to stick their heads in there. They're going to 8 get, you know, flipped around. They're going to die 9 out there. Plus, you know, sheep grow wool. They 10 get -- they get heavy with wool. They're going to be 11 very, very hot out there. 12 Plus, the solar panels create more 13 heat. So in reality, they said that these sheep -- 14 the sheep grazing is only going to create like five 15 more jobs. So and then with them having to supplement 16 the sheep grazing with gas-powered lawnmowers, I just 17 don't see that that's the be-all end-all. 18 And I would like for us, maybe, you 19 know, we're not -- thinking about solar and how much 20 things have changed, all of us have had cell phones 21 that are outdated within six months. 22 So these solar projects are for 40 23 years. They're going to be skeletons out there, just 24 like we all the great big satellite in our backyard. 25 We thought we were so call. 243 1 JUDGE HICKS: Ms. Rowley -- 2 THE WITNESS: Now, that's like 3 non-existent. 4 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. We've hit 5 your five minutes. 6 Any questions? 7 Mr. Settineri? 8 MR. SETTINERI: Very briefly. 9 CROSS-EXAMINATION 10 BY MR. SETTINERI: 11 Q Have you had a chance to review the staff 12 report that was issued? 13 A I'm sorry. Repeat that. 14 Q Have you had a chance to review the Ohio 15 Power Siting Board staff report and recommendation on 16 the project? 17 A No. I looked at the staffing -- the board 18 members, but I did not find the -- what you're talking 19 about. 20 Q Okay. That report has conditions that 21 relate to a certificate if a permit is issued for 22 this -- 23 A I'm sorry. I can't hear. I'm having a 24 little trouble hearing. 25 A Sure. No problem. That staff report and 244 1 recommendation contains conditions that staff 2 recommends for permits issued. Is that -- would you 3 consider reviewing that report after tonight? 4 A Sure. 5 Q Okay. Thank you. 6 A Mm-hmm. Thank you. 7 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 8 So up next, Ashley, it looks like 9 Labaki. 845 Sunset Avenue. 10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: She left. 11 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. How about Aaron 12 Brown? And on deck is Rich Piar. 15461 Vance Road. 13 Mr. Brown, are you an intervenor in the 14 case? 15 MR. BROWN: I am not. 16 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please raise 17 your right hand. 18 WHEREUPON, 19 AARON BROWN, 20 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 21 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 22 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 23 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 24 your name for the record. 25 THE WITNESS: Yeah. It's Aaron Brown, 245 1 A-A-R-O-N B-R-O-W-N. My address is 5545 Nave Street 2 Southwest, Canton, Ohio 44706. 3 JUDGE HICKS: Do you live or work in 4 the project area? 5 THE WITNESS: I do not. 6 JUDGE HICKS: Please go ahead. 7 DIRECT STATEMENT 8 THE WITNESS: All right. 9 Good evening, everybody. My name is 10 Aaron Brown, and I'm with the IBEW. As someone who's 11 seen this transformative impact of energy generation 12 projects firsthand for more than 25 years, I came here 13 tonight to talk about how energy projects bring 14 strength to these communities that they host -- that 15 host them. 16 I'm proud to support the Frasier Solar 17 project. And I believe the long-term benefits of this 18 project hold immense promise for our future here in 19 Knox County, in the neighboring counties, and the 20 whole state. 21 One of the key things about this 22 project that excites me is the job creation. We've 23 been building energy projects since we were founded in 24 1891, and our union members will almost certainly play 25 a pivotal role in making this project a success. 246 1 I have full confidence in our ability 2 to deliver because we've done it before successfully 3 on all kinds of energy generation projects: 4 transmission projects, battery projects, and more. 5 Unlike some of the other projects we 6 build, this project is going to be producing 7 electricity with no pollution at all. Just think 8 about that. It's really pretty amazing that we're 9 able to do these projects. 10 I think the board should find comfort 11 in the fact that Open Road is looking to leverage out 12 extensive training, our expertise, and dedication to a 13 job well done. We have the capability to ensure this 14 project is not only completed efficiently but also to 15 the highest standards of quality and safety. 16 The truth is, I support all forms of 17 energy. When our members are working on power lines, 18 we don't care where electricity is coming from, as 19 long as we keep the people's lights on or get their 20 power back on as quickly as possible like our members 21 have been doing in Indian Lake after their tornadoes 22 that went through. 23 But modernizing our power grid and 24 diversifying our sources of energy to add more solar 25 alongside other traditional sources of energy will 247 1 keep us and make sure our power stays on when sources 2 fail during an extreme weather event, which we've seen 3 recently in other states where gas plants failed to 4 come online while wind and solar plants kept pumping 5 out the power. 6 And with these new advances in energy 7 storage, now we can produce power with renewable 8 energy when it's cheap and abundant, store it, and 9 then put it back in the grid when we need it. 10 As Ohio's solar industry grows, the 11 IBEW will continue to support these good paying energy 12 sector jobs that are diversifying our power grid and 13 powering our communities. 14 Frasier Solar, with over 25 million in 15 earnings and 350 jobs on the horizon, isn't just about 16 racking up panels in these landowner's fields. It's 17 about building the future of this county and our 18 state. 19 Frasier Solar's commitment to the pilot 20 program, which includes hiring 70 percent of the 21 workforce right here in Ohio, speaks volumes about the 22 project's dedication to Knox County by keeping as much 23 of the benefits of this project as local as possible. 24 The pilot program is set to pay over a 25 million dollars in county taxes every year for up to 248 1 40 years. This is revenue that's going to benefit the 2 Mount Vernon city school district, the local health 3 and community centers, our emergency services for 4 township, and so much more. 5 Look around the state and you can see 6 the positive transformation that's happening in these 7 project communities. The long-term impact of this 8 project and the local economy cannot be overstated. 9 Beyond the immediate construction 10 phase, which will provide hundreds of jobs and inject 11 millions into our economy, we must consider the 12 lasting benefits it will bring. 13 For us electrical workers, the training 14 we receive translates into decades-long careers that 15 sustain our families for a lifetime with a dignified 16 middle-class lifestyle. 17 And I just want to just say and put it 18 on the record that, you know, I am a 25-year member of 19 the IBEW, and what I see coming forward is something 20 that we can have our kids and our grandkids a part of. 21 I'm just glad to be here able to 22 support the Frasier Solar project here tonight. We 23 really hope to build this project. I respectfully ask 24 that the board not stand in the way of economic 25 growth, local job creation, and a stronger power grid, 249 1 and to support the Frasier Solar project. Thank you 2 for your time. 3 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 4 Any questions? 5 Mr. Van Kley? 6 CROSS-EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. VAN KLEY: 8 Q The electrical that works that do the 9 electrical work at the solar projects are usually the 10 individuals who have the least amount of experience 11 with electrical; isn.t that true? 12 A I would not say that's true. 13 Q No? So you wouldn't say that most of the 14 electrical workers who work on these electrical 15 projects are novices at electrical work? 16 A No, it's a combination of journeymen and 17 apprentices. 18 Q Okay. And what's the ratio between the 19 journeymen and the apprentices at these facilities? 20 A So they vary project to project or 21 determined by that collective bargaining agreement. 22 Q Okay. Can you give me a range? 23 A Usually it's 1:2, 1:3. 24 Q One journeyman -- 25 A One journeyman to two apprentices or three 250 1 apprentices. 2 Q Okay. Thank you. 3 A Mm-hmm. 4 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you for your 5 testimony. 6 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 7 JUDGE HICKS: Next on the list is the 8 one I had trouble pronouncing. Rich Piar. I'm sorry? 9 Piar. Rich Piar. I take it that he has left? Next 10 it Samantha Bartram. 11 UNIDENTIFIED: Rich is here. 12 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Samantha 13 Bartram -- hopefully I'm saying that right -- is here. 14 She is on deck. 15 MS. BARTRAM: I am coming. 16 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Mr. Piar was 17 actually here, so you will be on deck. 18 Are you an intervenor in the case? 19 MR. PIAR: No. 20 JUDGE HICKS: Please raise your right 21 hand. 22 // 23 // 24 // 25 // 251 1 WHEREUPON, 2 RICHARD PIAR, 3 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 4 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 5 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 6 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 7 your name for the record. 8 THE WITNESS: Richard Piar, 9 R-I-C-H-A-R-D P-I-A-R. 10 JUDGE HICKS: And could you please 11 provide your address including any township. 12 THE WITNESS: 15461 Vance Road, Mount 13 Vernon, Ohio 43050, Miller Township. 14 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And do you live or 15 work in the project area? 16 THE WITNESS: Yes. 17 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 18 DIRECT STATEMENT 19 THE WITNESS: So I'm a third-generation 20 farmer. And my big concern is property rights. My 21 family and I, we've taken the chances and 22 opportunities to buy properties over the years but 23 make our mortgages, pay our taxes. 24 And not to be able to do we want to do 25 with the properties -- it's an investment for us. I 252 1 mean, it's a lifestyle for us, but, you know, I'm the 2 last of my generation. So something is going to 3 happen to the ground. And I have multiple parcels in 4 the solar lease project. 5 And is up to us to decide what we'd 6 like to do with the properties. And I hear various 7 concerns here. I don't like the opposition, as far 8 don't like to upset people. But, you know, it's a 9 family choice. Things we want to do. 10 And I hear comments about the weather. 11 I personally have solar on my barn, and it's probably 12 eight years old, and still is -- been through 13 hailstorms and stuff. 14 I don't see any cracks or anything on 15 those panels. I go up to inspect them yearly. So I 16 don't see that as being a major problem so far. Not 17 saying it can't be, but I don't see it at this point 18 on my personal use. 19 And I guess if anyone else could buy 20 the ground as well as I could, you know, it's the 21 chances we took but most people aren't risk takers 22 like that. Don't want to spend the money. 23 Trying to think -- some other comments 24 on there. Sorry. Drawing a blank. I guess that's 25 about all I have to say. 253 1 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 2 Any questions from counsel? 3 THE WITNESS: Oh, I guess -- sorry. 4 And the whole process of -- we've had 5 probably 18 different solar projects. And I was, as a 6 farmer, and this is my 39th full time year, I felt 7 comfortable after talking with Craig Adair on the 8 project, I felt very comfortable. 9 And we made so many different changes 10 in the lease that -- for conservation, erosion, 11 topsoil, disposing of the products off the farm to 12 certified sites after the fact, being bonded, went 13 through the whole process, made lots of changes, 14 concerned about the neighbors as far as water runoff 15 and stuff, and tried to make some things put in the 16 contract as well as feel very comfortable with them 17 following through with what they say. 18 JUDGE HICKS: Mr. Van Kley? 19 CROSS-EXAMINATION 20 BY MR. VAN KLEY: 21 Q How far is the house that you live in from 22 the nearest solar panels that are going to be 23 installed? 24 A I guess about two miles. 25 Q Okay. So you won't be able to see the solar 254 1 panels from your house? 2 A No. 3 Q Okay. Do you have any plans to move out of 4 the area in the future? 5 A No. 6 MR. VAN KLEY: All right. Thank you. 7 CROSS-EXAMINATION 8 BY MR. WEIGEL: 9 Q The original -- when you had the original 10 discussions, what were some of the concerns that you 11 were able to get changed in your agreement? 12 A Some of them were the drainage. They would 13 repair the tile as needed. And I said I was kind of 14 concerned about that. And we have in there that 15 replacing the tile system at the end of the project, 16 if need be. 17 Q So that wasn't in your original lease? 18 A No. 19 Q Do you know if that change has been made in 20 any of the other leases? 21 A You mean other landowners? 22 Q Yes. 23 A No. 24 Q So yours might be special and something that 25 was of a concern to you might not be in other people's 255 1 leases. 2 A I have no idea. 3 Q Okay. What were some of the other concerns 4 you had? 5 A Leaving the topsoil on the property, not 6 taking it off the property. Water use stays on the 7 property -- don't sell to a third party. The solar 8 panels have to be removed and taken to certified 9 places, recycle or whatever, but off the property. 10 Talked about the neighboring properties, if 11 they have a problem with drainage, having language in 12 there so that they can be taken care of. 13 Q And those weren't in the original agreements 14 that they presented to you? 15 A We tweaked the language a little bit. And 16 then noxious weeds, making sure they control noxious 17 weeds. 18 Q Okay. So had you signed originally, though, 19 none of these things would have been taken care of? 20 None of the concerns that you have would have been 21 taken care of? 22 A Not in the original lease. No. But they 23 understood and they were willing to make the changes. 24 Q And then you said you live in Mount Vernon; 25 correct? 256 1 A My farm is technically two counties, two 2 townships. 3 Q I'm sorry. Where you reside, the address 4 that you -- 5 A Yeah. It's two counties, two townships. 6 Q Okay. And that's your permanent residence? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Do you have any other residences in Ohio? 9 A I've got homes on different farms. 10 Q That's all. Thank you so much. 11 A Yes. 12 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you for your 13 testimony. 14 THE WITNESS: Thanks. 15 JUDGE HICKS: Up next is Samantha 16 Bartram. Am I saying that correctly? 17 MS. BARTRAM: You are. 18 JUDGE HICKS: Great. On deck is 19 Christy Preston. 20 Are you an intervenor in the case? 21 MS. BARTRAM: I am not. 22 JUDGE HICKS: Please raise your right 23 hand. 24 // 25 // 257 1 WHEREUPON, 2 SAMANTHA BARTRAM, 3 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 4 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 5 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 6 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 7 spell your name for the record. 8 THE WITNESS: My name is Samantha, 9 S-A-M-A-N-T-H-A, Bartram, B-A-R-T-R-A-M. And I live 10 at 1181 Gambier Road. That's in Mount Vernon. And 11 that's Pleasant Township. 12 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And do you live or 13 work in the project area? 14 THE WITNESS: I do not. I live about 15 three miles from the project area. 16 JUDGE HICKS: Please go ahead. 17 DIRECT STATEMENT 18 THE WITNESS: I just want to say thanks 19 to everyone who's still hanging out in this room after 20 all this time. I appreciate that. 21 I'm a, pretty much, lifelong resident 22 of Knox County. I was born in Mount Vernon. I grew 23 up on a farm in Fredericktown. My family has lived in 24 this county my entire life. 25 And I know from sitting here all night 258 1 that I'm far from the only person in this room who has 2 lived here either their whole life or several decades 3 in this area and who feel very strongly about it, feel 4 a real affinity for it. 5 And, you know, I'm almost 45 and not 6 really much has changed in this area since I was a wee 7 little girl. But things are changing. The world is 8 changing. And change will eventually come for Knox 9 County. 10 And as frustrating as that may feel and 11 as scary and upsetting as it might be, it is probably 12 time for us to start to think about how we can use our 13 open spaces to benefit our community, to benefit our 14 world, to combat climate change. And solar energy is 15 a part of that. 16 And I'm not going to go through all of 17 the reasons why. Instead, I'll just hit a couple 18 little arguments I've heard tonight that are sticking 19 with me: the chemicals that will leach off the 20 panels, the panels will break, et cetera. 21 There's order of magnitude of studies 22 out there including from Frasier but also from the 23 Federal Department of Energy. And you can go to their 24 website and you can read about what these panels are 25 made of and what they are up to -- what they can 259 1 withstand, weather-wise. The hail that we get in this 2 county is not big enough to break these solar panels. 3 If we're worried about chemicals 4 leaching off the solar panels, we might also worry 5 about agricultural runoff from all of the fields that 6 perhaps use chemicals like roundup to control weeds 7 and pests and what the runoff from all of those 8 chemicals might be doing to our land, to our 9 groundwater. 10 I've heard we don't have enough sun 11 here to sustain solar power. But amazingly, according 12 to the USDA, in 2023, almost 14 million acres of 13 farmland in Ohio was in active production making corn, 14 hay, soybeans, alfalfa, vegetables, livestock. 15 So somehow, we have sun to support all 16 of that agriculture but we don't enough sun to support 17 solar energy. Just curious to me. 18 Also heard a lot tonight about property 19 rights, how we should keep this farmland in 20 production. We seem to be totally erasing the agency 21 of the landowners who apparently don't want to farm 22 their farmland. 23 I have complicated feelings about 24 property rights, but that's the way it is in our world 25 right now. They have the right to do whatever they 260 1 want with their land, and this is what they've chose 2 to do. And I think as neighbors and community 3 members, we can all respect that. 4 I think the last thing that I'll say is 5 there's been a lot of talk about supporters of solar 6 getting paid to be here tonight. I've not received 7 one dime from Frasier. Maybe you can put your hands 8 up, anyone in here who has received money to be here 9 to speak tonight. 10 No? No one. If you're talking about 11 the good neighbor agreement, you can look on their 12 application. You can look on the Siting Board staff 13 report. The good neighbor agreement includes a 14 $10,000 one-time payment or $600 a year, I believe, in 15 subsidies to offset your electrical believe. 16 I'm sure the attorneys can correct me 17 if I'm wrong on that. That's what these folks are 18 getting. They're not getting a lifetime payment. 19 They're not getting millions of dollars to allow solar 20 on their land. They are getting bare minimum 21 inconvenience fee for the time that this project is 22 being constructed. 23 So I don't know. If I were any of you 24 and someone, especially someone running for elected 25 office, were standing up here accusing me of being 261 1 paid to speak and apparently not smart enough to do 2 the research myself or form my own opinion, I'd be 3 lightly offended by that. 4 I'll say, in closing, I truly hope that 5 the Siting Board takes into consideration all the very 6 thoughtful testimony you've heard tonight, and that 7 you consider approving the project. Thanks. 8 JUDGE HICKS: Any question from 9 counsel? 10 Thank you for your testimony. 11 THE WITNESS: Thanks. 12 JUDGE HICKS: Up next is Christy 13 Preston. And on deck is Hannah Patton. 14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Hannah's not 15 here. She had to leave. 16 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Thank you. So 17 next on the list on deck would be Sara Lynn Kerr. 18 Ms. Preston, are you an intervenor in 19 the case? 20 MS. PRESTON: No. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 22 right hand. 23 // 24 // 25 // 262 1 WHEREUPON, 2 CHRISTY PRESTON, 3 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 4 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 5 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 6 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 7 spell your name for the record. 8 THE WITNESS: Christy Preston, 9 C-H-R-I-S-T-Y P-R-E-S-T-O-N. My address is 15700 10 Nixon Road, and I live in Miller Township. 11 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And do you live or 12 work in the project area? 13 THE WITNESS: Both. 14 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 15 DIRECT STATEMENT 16 THE WITNESS: First of all, I am 17 opposed to the Frasier Solar project. I have many 18 reasons. I will have to see the solar panels in the 19 fields everyday as well as hear the constant hum. The 20 seeing is not as bad to me as the noise and the 21 constant hum. 22 In doing research to the safety of 23 living near the industrial solar fields, if you Google 24 it, you can pull up like 29,000 different hits. So 25 there are different opinions on everything. Nothing 263 1 is conclusive. It just depends on who paid for that 2 study as to what they found, basically. 3 I don't feel that it's a hundred 4 percent safe to be surrounded by a solar field. This 5 is not -- there would not be the first time that 6 people were told, oh, it's safe to live here or live 7 here by this factory, by this water, whatever, and 8 then they found out years later when everybody has got 9 cancer that oops, it wasn't safe. "We're sorry. 10 Here's your settlement." 11 I don't want to be one of those that 12 find out years from now that me, my kids, my 13 grandkids, have something because oops, these weren't 14 as safe as we were sold the bill of goods they were. 15 I think more research needs to into 16 that before they're around everybody's house. That is 17 not the only reason that I oppose this project. 18 I feel that it disturbs our peaceful 19 properties. It reduces our property values. It may 20 not in California, but we're not in California. We're 21 in rural Ohio, and it will impact our property values. 22 I have concerns for the environmental 23 impacts as well as the wildlife impacts. I'm also 24 very concerned of what happens when Open Roads is out. 25 When they sell it to someone else, who is going to 264 1 police that they do everything that they said they 2 were going to do? 3 If you look at Brown County or the 4 other ones, yes, I'm sure that they've learned from 5 that, but there are still other mistakes being made. 6 And I worry about those. 7 The majority of the residents in this 8 township have spoken loudly about the opposition to 9 this project. The recent local election has been 10 brought up several times, but is a clear example to 11 that. 12 I understand that people are in favor 13 of green energy. And if they want that in their home, 14 in their state, in their township surrounding their 15 house, I am totally fine by that. I won't go to their 16 township and pose my opinion. 17 But this is my township we're talking 18 about. This is my home. Our township has spoken, and 19 we do not want it in our township. We don't want -- 20 have to deal with the consequences of what goes wrong. 21 I ask that you please put -- protect our houses like 22 you protected Governor DeWine's. Thank you. 23 JUDGE HICKS: Any questions from 24 counsel? 25 Thank you for your testimony. 265 1 Up now is Sara Lynn Kerr, and on deck 2 is Nanette Cales. 3 Ms. Kerr, are you an intervenor in the 4 case? 5 MS. KERR: I am not. 6 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 7 right hand. 8 WHEREUPON, 9 SARA LYNN KERR, 10 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 11 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 12 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 13 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 14 spell your name for the record. 15 THE WITNESS: Sara, S-A-R-A, Lynn, 16 L-Y-N-N, Kerr, K-E-R-R. 17 JUDGE HICKS: And your address 18 including township? 19 THE WITNESS: I'm at 1300 Westwood 20 Drive, Mount Vernon. I am in Clinton Township. And I 21 am within a mile of one of the sites. 22 JUDGE HICKS: Please go ahead. 23 DIRECT STATEMENT 24 THE WITNESS: Several times tonight 25 we've referenced -- counsel has asked and you have 266 1 asked whether we've read the staff report. Page 63, 2 number 58 does raise concern about the disposal. 3 Number 58: "At the time of the solar 4 panel end of life disposal, any retired panel material 5 that is not recycled and that is marked for disposal 6 shall be sent to an engineered landfill with various 7 barriers and methods designed to prevent leaching of 8 materials into soils and groundwater or another 9 appropriate disposal location at the time of 10 decommissioning by the approved staff." 11 So I do believe this staff has said in 12 their report that there could be leaching, and it's 13 dangerous. 14 We live in an amazing time, an amazing 15 place, and an especially amazing landscape in Knox 16 County, Ohio. I have been to 46 states and eight 17 countries, and I have never been as at home as I am in 18 Knox County where I was born. 19 I am privileged to use and take for 20 granted all utilities. We are in America, taking 21 utilities for granted is granted by the responsibility 22 of our government for good choices, common sense, and 23 forward thinking. 24 I indeed want to weigh in on the 25 introduction of solar use in the Midwest on farmland. 267 1 Agriculturally rich and worked for centuries. I am 2 against solar in Knox County. 3 The decision for solar started long 4 before Knox County citizens had a clue that our rural 5 character was under attack to be changed forever. 6 Forced upon us in a very deliberate, strategic, 7 methodical way. 8 Big dollars, tax incentive, and a rush 9 for land that is at the very fabric of our lives. 10 My greatest concern is the lack of time 11 and consideration for education and the responsibility 12 for consideration of both sides. Yes, to industrial 13 solar, or no to industrial solar. 14 You might just hear why beautiful, 15 productive, agricultural acres, why does the 16 information not include comparison to all energy 17 adequate to our needs? Why isn't there a complement 18 of national effort geographically managed? Why so 19 fast? 20 Green new deals and subsidies reek of 21 legislation without the amalgamation of 22 considerations. The Ohio Power Siting Board had a web 23 of activity sown before one resident had been 24 contacted. 25 The move to solar without proper 268 1 acknowledgment or documentation or accurate 2 comparisons project only one side of this torrential 3 discussion. We are the victims. We are the addresses 4 in Knox County. 5 Your decision on March 20th, funneling 6 an avenue to industrial solar on farmland in Knox 7 County, exaggerates the need to stop right where we 8 are and evaluate this big step. 9 I want to hear and see conclusions 10 based on Knox County residents, those opinions, the 11 ones that live here will bear the outcome. It is one 12 thing to meet the requirements and it is another thing 13 to be good stewards. 14 We need to all be educated. We need to 15 sort fact from fiction. We need to recognize theory 16 from experience. I ask you, what do you want to 17 harvest? What do we want to harvest? Thank you. 18 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 19 Mr. Settineri? 20 CROSS-EXAMINATION 21 BY MR. SETTINERI: 22 Q Good evening. 23 A Good evening. 24 Q You led with the staff report and the 25 conditions. So I assume -- 269 1 A Briefly and quickly. 2 Q Did you read condition 7, which states "the 3 applicant shall only use solar panel modules that do 4 not exhibit the characteristic of toxicity, verified 5 through analysis or documentation of the U.S. EPA's 6 toxicity characteristics leaching procedure test. 7 "Prior to the pre-construction conference, 8 the application shall file confirmation that panels 9 were analyzed through the U.S. EPA's toxicity 10 characteristics leaching procedure test." 11 Did you read that condition when you read the 12 staff report? 13 A I might have. But the condition that that 14 has to be -- that there's concern when it is 15 decommissioned, what is that full concern? 16 Q And does condition 7 provide you some 17 comfort regarding the panels in the fact that there's 18 a U.S. EPA, what we call TCLP test? 19 A And they will each year. They'll get 20 better, I'm sure. 21 MR. SETTINERI: Thank you. No further 22 questions. 23 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 24 Thank you for your testimony. 25 Up next is Nannette Cales, and next on 270 1 the list is Daniel C. Baker Sr., I think. You are on 2 deck, sir. 3 Are you an intervenor in the case? 4 MS. CALES: No. 5 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. If you please 6 raise your right hand. 7 WHEREUPON, 8 NANNETTE CALES, 9 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 10 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 11 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 12 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 13 your name for the record. 14 THE WITNESS: My name is Nannette 15 Cales, N-A-N-N-E-T-T-E C-A-L-E-S. My address is 540 16 Wooster Road, Mount Vernon, Ohio. And I live in 17 Monroe Township. 18 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And do you live or 19 work in the project area? 20 THE WITNESS: I do not. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 22 DIRECT STATEMENT 23 THE WITNESS: As I know that I do not 24 live or work directly in the project area, I do live 25 in Mount Vernon. And I was born and raised in the 271 1 project area. My parents still live in the project 2 area. I am the future of their property in the 3 project area. 4 I am directly affected when something 5 directly affects my elderly parents and my brother and 6 my family. My parents and some of my extended family 7 live in Miller Township. I will always with what I 8 believe is best for them. 9 I've heard many people talk tonight 10 about property rights. What about the property rights 11 of the neighbors? What about the property rights of 12 the people that are not having the solar panels but 13 their properties are going to be -- values are going 14 to go down? 15 As a third generation to that property, 16 I oppose Frasier Solar project. Thank you. 17 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 18 Any questions from counsel? 19 Thank you for your testimony. 20 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Up next is Mr. Baker -- I 22 see coming up -- and next on the list would be Pam 23 Phillips. 24 Mr. Baker, are you an intervenor in the 25 case? 272 1 MR. BAKER: Pardon? 2 JUDGE HICKS: Are you an intervenor in 3 the case? 4 MR. BAKER: No. 5 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 6 right hand. 7 WHEREUPON, 8 DANIEL C. BAKER SR., 9 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 10 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 11 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 12 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 13 spell your name for the record. 14 THE WITNESS: Daniel C. Baker, 15 D-A-N-I-E-L B-A-K-E-R Sr. 16 JUDGE HICKS: And could you please 17 provide your address including township? 18 THE WITNESS: 13630 Miller Road, Mount 19 Vernon. Yeah, Miler. 20 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And do you live or 21 work in the project area? 22 THE WITNESS: Live. I'm retired, so -- 23 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 24 with your testimony. 25 // 273 1 DIRECT STATEMENT 2 THE WITNESS: Okay. I am in opposition 3 to the solar. Simple reason that I just don't trust 4 it. It's -- from what I've read and heard, it's still 5 too young to go with, as far as I'm concerned. 6 I have been approached and they offered 7 me the -- what'll they call it -- the friends or 8 whatever. And I turned them down. And that's all I 9 got. Thank you. 10 JUDGE HICKS: Any questions from 11 counsel? 12 Thank you for your testimony. 13 Pam Phillips? 14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: She went home. 15 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. 16 MR. PHILLIPS: It's her birthday. 17 JUDGE HICKS: I'm going to guess you're 18 Bob Phillips? 19 MR. PHILLIPS: That'd be a true 20 statement. 21 JUDGE HICKS: Next on the list after 22 Mr. Phillips is David -- 23 MR. PHILLIPS: Stuller. 24 JUDGE HICKS: -- Stuller. 25 MR. PHILLIPS: But anyway, Bob 274 1 Phillips -- 2 JUDGE HICKS: Let me just do the -- 3 you're not an intervenor in the case? 4 MR. PHILLIPS: That'd be a true 5 statement. 6 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. 7 WHEREUPON, 8 BOB PHILLIPS, 9 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 10 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 11 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 12 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. For the court 13 reporter, please -- 14 THE WITNESS: Bob Phillips, B-O-B 15 P-H-I-L-L-I-P-S. Live at 11839 Banning Road, Clinton 16 Township, which part of the project is in. 17 DIRECT STATEMENT 18 THE WITNESS: I'm the one that pulled 19 myself off the Ohio Power Siting Board because I am 20 totally against this project. It's kind of like the 21 old -- in my opinion. We have a long ways to go. 22 They improve the panels all the time. 23 Here we are going to through these things everywhere 24 that we think we know everything about, of course 25 until just like they put a car on the road and the 275 1 brakes don't work and kills somebody. 2 So in my opinion, a lot of these things 3 are coming from overseas. We're relying on huge, huge 4 volumes of these things that are not getting here, you 5 know -- our ports are bad. We even had a big mishap, 6 what, out in Massachusetts or wherever that bridge 7 fell. 8 But all that stuff, we're going to rely 9 on that for our energy instead of our local -- which 10 everybody is calling, you know, the wells and the oils 11 and the gases that we have right underneath this 12 little county here of Knox County. 13 And we're going to go supply solar to 14 the big cities because we've promised big companies 15 that are coming in here that we're going to give them 16 this green energy and great stuff for them. 17 So with that being said, the supply 18 side of this whole castle going to crumble someday 19 when we're going to rely a high percentage of our 20 energy from that source. And we're pushing the coal 21 and the gas and everything off the planet. 22 It's weird to, you know -- China is 23 producing a coal plant every -- every week, and we're 24 getting rid of them. It's kind of weird. And they're 25 the ones producing the glass panels from that coal to 276 1 build for us here. 2 And we're creating a great green energy 3 world that way. Because they're putting more in the 4 atmosphere and we're trying to take it out. 5 So that doesn't work for me 'cause it's 6 a whole world. It isn't just the United States or 7 Knox County. So we're letting them just destroy the 8 Earth over there while we're thinking we're saving it 9 here. And that just doesn't work. That doesn't make 10 sense. 11 And the concept of the other topic I'd 12 like to touch is property rights. Yeah. Property 13 rights are great till we put in zoning, till we don't 14 let chickens run down up throughout the streets in 15 Mount Vernon. 16 Why don't we have pigs running up and 17 down the street? Because we have zoning. We have 18 neighbors that say hey, we don't like pigs running up 19 and down the street. So we can't have our pigs in our 20 street. 21 So it's the same thing out in the 22 counties, in the townships. Make it where it's 23 neighbor-friendly. If you're going to wipe out your 24 neighbors, you've lost your friends. Sorry, but 25 that's what'll happen. 277 1 And it'll happen over and over. And 2 it's creating a mini war and all these townships -- 3 and you guys are letting it happen. 4 So it'd been easy if we were all aware 5 of it four years ago. For some reason we aren't 6 allowed to know 'cause it's competitive market, you 7 know, this energy company and this company, we can't 8 let them know we're coming into this county. 9 Kind of BS kind of a program. But 10 that's what the whole concept is, keeping it all 11 hushed up. No, it's so the citizens don't know that 12 they're surrounding these people. 13 So sorry for that. But that's what I 14 have to say. I been here all my life. My dad's 15 nickname was Sheepy, so we had 500 ewes when he was a 16 little kid. So we know sheep. We know cows. I grew 17 up smelling like cow shit or cow manure. So that's my 18 world. So thank you. 19 JUDGE HICKS: Any questions from 20 counsel? 21 Thank you for your testimony. 22 On deck is Brian Wallace. 23 Mr. Stuller? 24 MR. STULLER: Yes? 25 JUDGE HICKS: Are you an intervenor in 278 1 the case? 2 MR. STULLER: I am not. 3 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 4 right hand. 5 WHEREUPON, 6 DAVID STULLER, 7 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 8 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 9 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 10 JUDGE HICKS: Please state and spell 11 your name for the record. 12 THE WITNESS: My name is David Stuller, 13 D-A-V-I-D S-T-U-L-L-E-R. I live at 1415 Culbertson 14 Drive, Mount Vernon, Ohio. The part of Mount Vernon 15 I'm in is Pleasant Township. 16 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And do you live or 17 work in the project area? 18 THE WITNESS: Yes. 19 JUDGE HICKS: Please go ahead. 20 DIRECT STATEMENT 21 THE WITNESS: So I am the city 22 treasurer of Mount Vernon. In my role as treasurer, I 23 oversee the tax department, which collects income tax 24 from those who live and work in Mount Vernon and also 25 from business profits for those operating in Mount 279 1 Vernon. Income tax receipts account for nearly half 2 of the city's annual budget. 3 I fully support resolution 2024-34, 4 passed recently by Mount Vernon City Council, opposing 5 industrial solar development in Mount Vernon. 6 126 acres of land located on Sharp Road 7 are within the city limits and are part of the Frasier 8 Solar project. This land was annexed into the city 9 without about 350 additional acres. 10 Planning for the future, there was a 11 mixture of zoning applied to this ground. There were 12 some acres that were general business, which increased 13 the size of the industrial park. There was some 14 wetlands to protect the environment. There was also 15 planned neighborhood development for housing which 16 comes along with all the business growth. 17 This land that I'm speaking of was the 18 planned neighborhood development. So the current -- 19 and it is currently being farmed. But make no 20 mistake, it is not farmland. 21 The resolution passed by county 22 commissioners allowed for solar development on 23 unincorporated land in Knox County on a case-by-case 24 basis. This is clearly not unincorporated. So the 25 resolution and the reason we are here today does not 280 1 apply to this land. 2 If industrial solar is permitted on 3 this land, Mount Vernon stands to lose revenue for the 4 next forty-plus years, revenue that is crucial to the 5 long-term vitality of this city. The payments in lieu 6 of taxes pilot amount to very little as these payments 7 bypass the city and go directly to the county. 8 It is my duty as city treasurer to act 9 in the best interest of the citizens of Mount Vernon 10 because that is why they elected me. 11 So on behalf of them and for the 12 continued vitality of Mount Vernon, I respectfully 13 request this site be disallowed for solar development. 14 Let's keep this land as it was originally planned. 15 Thank you for your time. 16 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 17 Any from questions from counsel? 18 Mr. Settineri? 19 CROSS-EXAMINATION 20 BY MR. SETTINERI: 21 Q Good evening, sir. 22 A Good evening. 23 Q You made a comment -- I wrote it down, I 24 think. You talked about 126 acres on Sharp Road that 25 are currently being farmed. 281 1 A Yeah. Yes, it is. 2 Q You said "but make no mistake; it's not 3 farmland." 4 A It is not farmland. 5 Q Why did you say that? 6 A Because it's zoned planned development -- 7 planned neighborhood development. 8 Q Is it privately owned land currently? 9 A It is. 10 Q Does the city of Mount Vernon own that land? 11 A But the city of Mount Vernon controls it 12 through their zoning. It is annexed into the city; it 13 is part of the city. 14 Q But the city doesn't own that land, does it? 15 A No. 16 Q Private landowner does. And so you support 17 neighborhood development for the city; is that 18 correct? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Okay. And you'd agree then that -- 21 A Because if you don't -- if you don't do it 22 here, it's going to be -- housing is coming, whether 23 it's here, whether it's someplace else. It's coming. 24 So if it's not here, this land is going to 25 sit within the city of Mount Vernon. We have 126 282 1 acres in the city of Mount Vernon with no revenue to 2 the city for 40-plus years. And then what happens 3 after 40 years? What happens after 40 years? 4 Q You read -- did you read the staff report 5 and recommendation and conditions? 6 A Why would I do that? 7 Q I have to -- 8 THE REPORTER: Excuse me. Excuse me. 9 Can you wait until they stop clapping? 10 THE WITNESS: It's a -- it's a moot 11 point. It's a moot point. 12 BY MR. SETTINERI: 13 Q I just have to ask -- 14 A This land is zoned planned neighborhood 15 development. It's not agricultural. And it should 16 not be solar. 17 Q You said you didn't read it, and you asked 18 why should you. You're a public official; is that 19 correct? 20 A I am. 21 Q You're the city treasurer? 22 A Yes. 23 Q You also talked about the pilot. Do you 24 know that under the pilot the Mount Vernon city 25 schools are to receive, annually, over $400,000 a 283 1 year? 2 A Yeah. And you know that's not inflation 3 adjusted. It's flat for 40 years. And does not 4 increase, which this has the opportunity to increase. 5 And if it was developed as it was zoned, the schools 6 would have opportunity for more tax as well as the 7 city of Mount Vernon. 8 Q And so under your view, taking that farmland 9 today into residential would ensure that land doesn't 10 go back to farmland ever; correct? 11 A Neither do two- and five-acre parcels in the 12 country for one house. 13 Q You mentioned that I think that your role is 14 to do what's best for the citizens of Mount Vernon; 15 correct? 16 A Yes. 17 Q And without the project that -- 18 A So you think -- you think having -- you 19 think -- 20 JUDGE HICKS: Sir. Sir, let him finish 21 his question. And he is also the one asking the 22 questions. 23 THE WITNESS: All right. 24 BY MR. SETTINERI: 25 Q Let me ask this. You, in your role as city 284 1 treasurer, want to do what's best for the citizens of 2 Mount Vernon; correct? 3 A I answered that. 4 Q And with the project, the Mount Vernon city 5 schools would get over, fact, I think, an estimated 6 488,000 a year; correct? 7 A We've covered this. Didn't we cover this? 8 We covered this. 9 Q I'm asking -- 10 JUDGE HICKS: He did answer the 11 question. 12 But also, you need to let Mr. Settineri 13 finish his questions before you answer. Okay? 14 THE WITNESS: I thought he was 15 finished. 16 BY MR. SETTINERI: 17 Q You agree with the project that there would 18 be, I have here, 480,000 annually that would not 19 increase with inflation; correct? 20 A Correct. 21 Q And without the project, there would be no 22 488,000 a year for the schools; correct? 23 A It could be more. 24 Q Without the project -- 25 A It could be more. 285 1 Q And that would be if you converted all of 2 the land to residential subdivisions? 3 A Right. 4 MR. SETTINERI: No further questions. 5 Thank you. 6 CROSS-EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. ELKIN: 8 Q Just a couple additional questions. 9 Resolution 2024-31 from Mount Vernon, does that apply 10 to the 126 acres that you were just discussing? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And that resolution discusses preservation 13 of agricultural land and reduction of agricultural 14 land; is that correct? 15 A That was part of the broader -- it covered - 16 - in addition to this, it covered the whole Knox 17 County. So in addition, that's what that was about. 18 Q Anywhere in the resolution, does it discuss 19 preserving land for planned residential development? 20 A I don't believe so. 21 Q Nowhere in the resolution? 22 A But it -- but it's zoned that. 23 Q Thank you. 24 A It doesn't need to say that because it's 25 zoned already. That planning happened a long time 286 1 ago. Bringing it into the city, having industrial 2 land, having planned neighborhood development, it was 3 all part of a larger plan. And this is -- this is the 4 end of that plan. 5 MR. ELKIN: Thank you. No further 6 questions. 7 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 8 Thank you for your testimony. 9 Brian Wallace. And on deck is Audrey 10 Cullen. 11 MR. WALLACE: Hello. Like you said, 12 Brian Wallace here. B-R-I-A-N W-A-L-L-A-C-E. 13 JUDGE HICKS: Just need to swear you 14 in. And I confirm you are not an intervenor? 15 MR. WALLACE: No. 16 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 17 right hand. 18 WHEREUPON, 19 BRIAN WALLACE, 20 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 21 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 22 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 23 JUDGE HICKS: You may have just started 24 it, but go ahead and provide your name and spell it 25 for the court reporter. 287 1 THE WITNESS: Sure. Brian Wallace, 2 B-R-I-A-N W-A-L-L-A-C-E. 11920 Fred Amity Road, 3 F-R-E-D A-M-I-T-Y, Fredericktown, Morris Township. 4 And I'm not at the site. 5 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 6 DIRECT STATEMENT 7 THE WITNESS: So I know -- in I think 8 roughly 1970 is when I kind of -- I can think back -- 9 I was born in 1981. However, I know we've always 10 heard about -- think the big talk of scientists and 11 politicians was, there's going to be an ice age by the 12 year 2000. 13 1976, global cooling was going to cause 14 a world war by the year 2000. 1989, the global 15 warming and the rising levels was going to wipe our 16 entire nation off the map. 17 1999, the glaciers are going to be gone 18 in ten years. 2008, arctic is going to be ice-free by 19 the year 2013. And it goes on and on. 20 What we all just lived through, you 21 know -- well, we can say that, you know, science and 22 politicians, they're not -- they haven't been proven 23 to be reliable. And we all just lived through a big 24 fiasco, a worldwide one, all in the name of science. 25 So -- and it's -- all the credit and 288 1 all the authorities given to, you know, our trusted 2 agencies -- so I know I've heard some of the people 3 say it here tonight. 4 You know, we have, you know, smoking -- 5 the government, we said it was great, you know, kids 6 have smoking, kids on planes, doctors and it was all 7 okay. Just one thing, you know. 8 But this has not been proven. We don't 9 the long-term effects from this industrial solar. So 10 I'm all about property rights. You know, we the 11 people. I'm all about being a sovereign nation and, 12 you know, being able to make my own choices, my own 13 decision as a, you know, free from the government 14 interference or intervention. 15 But when I got to looking into this, I 16 mean -- and it's been said here many times -- a lot of 17 folks that -- what about the property rights, you 18 know, for the persons living next to an adjacent farm? 19 So and we can learn from -- there's a 20 big farm in Michigan. Just there's a lot of case 21 studies that we can go look at right now, your own 22 town or own city or own state. 23 But one I'm speaking of is in Michigan 24 -- roughly five to seven hundred acres. The township 25 trustees are going through and they're doing a tour 289 1 and another township trustee from Illinois is coming 2 in to take a look at it. And it's just completely 3 devasted the land. They're in absolute -- they're 4 just wishing they didn't do it to the landowners. 5 And a lot of people have talked about 6 the sound. And I want to play the sound real quick 7 while I'm talking of these inverters that are going to 8 be heard up to a mile away. (Plays audio.) 9 So that's the inverter. This -- that's 10 the constant nonstop sound that people are -- locust 11 sound, whatever, you know, you may describe it as. It 12 certainly isn't peace and quiet. It's not the sound 13 of nature that God created. 14 You know, so I have all this things 15 that are -- disturb me, you know, about the land, the 16 wildlife, you know. So at that farm I was talking 17 about in Michigan, what they do is they take a skid 18 steer and they bulldoze all the topsoil so it takes 19 all the agricultural value away from it. 20 And then they take these, like, 4-foot 21 wide augurs and drill down 10 feet down into the 22 ground, destroying all the drain tile, completely 23 destroying the, you know, the -- so the -- it destroys 24 the agricultural value. 25 And it's on a level ground so it 290 1 retains water. The neighboring properties do as well. 2 So here in Knox County we have a lot 3 of, you know, valleys and inclines and whatnot, so the 4 low-lying areas are just going to retain it on top of, 5 you know, all the issues we've been having just 6 recently with some high water accumulation from the 7 storms. 8 But anyhow, I did some canvassing, 9 going around the neighborhoods because as you know, 10 everyone knows and has brought this up. The big topic 11 for local politics, which I didn't know anything about 12 -- I don't if any -- other knew about it. 13 But out of 150 people I spoke to 14 personally -- it -- maybe that's just a rough number, 15 three of those people were for this. So the 16 resounding majority of people know, you know, it's 17 been proven like everyone has already said, you know. 18 This is from our -- what the people 19 want here. And I just think that if the county, the 20 city, you know, everyone is just absolutely against 21 it, I don't think that we should be destroying the 22 planet just to save it. 23 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you, Mr. Wallace. 24 Any questions from counsel? 25 // 291 1 CROSS-EXAMINATION 2 BY MR. EISENSON: 3 Q So you testified that you're concerned about 4 impacts to drainage tile; is that correct? 5 A That's one of them. Yeah. 6 Q Are you aware of any measures that the 7 applicant has proposed to take care of drainage tile? 8 A What applicant? This one? 9 Q Yeah, the developer. 10 A No. 11 Q So you haven't read the staff report where 12 it describes that the applicant has -- 13 A No. 14 Q So -- 15 A There's two or three pages I've read. I 16 downloaded it. I briefly scrolled through it. 17 Nothing of interest to me because the long-term 18 studies haven't been conducted. That's the concern. 19 And I don't want to be Knox County to be the 20 test pilot, you know, 40 years late: why? It's not a 21 good idea for remaining country. 22 Q So you're not aware that the applicant has 23 committed to restoring all the damaged drainage tiles? 24 A I really don't care what they've decided. 25 There's no -- there's no proven data. I don't care 292 1 about a government report. I want to see it with my 2 own eyes. I want people generations to live through 3 and see it, that it's good. 4 Q You also referred to a case study in 5 Michigan where all the topsoil is bulldozed; is that 6 right? 7 A Yes, sir. 8 Q Yeah. And are you aware of any measures 9 that the developer here has proposed to protect soil? 10 A Don't care. 11 Q Yeah. So you're not aware that the 12 developer is planning to separate the topsoil from the 13 subsoil during construction -- 14 A No, this is an agriculture county. And 15 solar farming is not farming. Solar farming is not 16 farming. 17 Q And you're not aware of any recommendation 18 to limit the amount of grading to -- 19 A I don't care. It doesn't bother me. No. 20 The long-term improvement studies of regenerations is 21 what I care about. 22 MR. EISENSON: All right. Thank you. 23 THE WITNESS: And I hope the Ohio 24 Power -- OPSB takes that in consideration, please. 25 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 293 1 Up next is Audrey Cullen. 2 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Not here. 3 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Seth Ring? 4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No. 5 JUDGE HICKS: Not here? 6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Think I'm next. 7 JUDGE HICKS: Isabel Conner? 8 Eric Holdener? 9 And on deck would be Roberta Gardner. 10 Mr. Holdener, are you an intervenor in 11 the case? 12 MR. HOLDENER: No, I am not. 13 JUDGE HICKS: Could you please raise 14 your right hand. 15 WHEREUPON, 16 ERIC HOLDENER, 17 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 18 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 19 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 20 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 21 spell your name for the record. 22 THE WITNESS: My name is Eric Holdener, 23 E-R-I-C H-O-L-D-E-N-E-R. 24 JUDGE HICKS: And your address 25 including any township. 294 1 THE WITNESS: 202 East Wiggins Street 2 in Gambier, which is College Township. 3 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And do you live or 4 work in the project area? 5 THE WITNESS: No, but I hope to take a 6 field trip there one day. 7 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 8 with your testimony. 9 DIRECT TESTIMONY 10 THE WITNESS: Okay. So at the risk of 11 causing some laughter in the room, I'm going to say 12 that I also help teach that solar power class at 13 Kenyon College. 14 And we take a lot of field trips in 15 that course, mostly to residential solar sites. We 16 primarily talk to our students about residential 17 installations. But one of the benefits of solar power 18 is that it's really scalable. 19 With the growth of solar in and around 20 Knox County, we have also started taking our students 21 out to see several commercial solar farms including 22 one very memorable visit to a -- it was a little over 23 3 megawatts, I believe -- installation down at Denison 24 University. 25 And I'm going to tell you a little bit 295 1 about it because it speaks to some of the 2 misinformation that's been just spoken about just two 3 minutes ago. 4 We had a guided tour of that facility. 5 It was a beautiful, warm, sunny, spring afternoon, not 6 at all like today. Our guide was telling us about the 7 facility and the, you know, the panels and the arrays. 8 And he also told us about the process that Denison had 9 gone through to get the facility built. 10 The neighbors were not happy. And they 11 were worried, primarily, about the noise that the 12 tracking motors and the inverters would make. And we 13 were about -- well, we could have reached out and 14 touched the inverters. So we were right there. And 15 they made a noise that was inconsequential. 16 And I don't know what the gentleman 17 just played on his phone, but that was not any 18 inverter that I've ever listened to in my life. Now, 19 granted, I haven't been to all the inverters on the 20 planet, but that was -- you know, we walked 10 feet 21 away from the inverter that day, and you didn't hear a 22 darn thing. 23 Now we were also looking at the arrays, 24 and they have tracking motors. And, you know, we were 25 right there watching them and they moved. We couldn't 296 1 hear a darn thing. The sound of the bees and the, you 2 know, the chirping of the crickets was -- that's all 3 we heard. 4 So again, I can't speak to every darn 5 solar facility on the planet, but if you're a mile 6 away from these inverters, I doubt if you're going to 7 be, you know, losing any sleep. 8 Okay. That's really about all I want 9 to say. I mean, I could go on about other 10 misinformation. But I'm just going to leave it at 11 that. I'm for Frasier Solar. And I'm for the 12 economical and clean and quiet energy that it will 13 bring the citizens of Knox County. 14 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 15 Any questions from counsel? 16 CROSS-EXAMINATION 17 BY MR. WIEGEL: 18 Q Good evening. Just to clarify a couple of 19 points that I asked your colleague a little earlier, 20 did you as a teacher encourage any of your students to 21 file public comments in this case? 22 A No, we did not. 23 Q And there was no incentive to either way, 24 pro or against, you know, they get involved with the 25 process? 297 1 A We were very evenhanded. We had people from 2 Preserve Knox County come and talk to our students for 3 about an hour. And we visited Craig Adair and the 4 Open Roads people and heard about the same amount of 5 time from them. 6 Q You mentioned you've taken some field trips 7 to solar installations. 8 A Correct. 9 Q What is the largest installation you 10 visited? 11 A It would be that one down at Denison, so 12 far. 13 Q Denison. And how many solar panels was 14 that? 15 A Oh, I don't know. It's -- it's about -- 16 again, I think it's about 3 megawatts total. The site 17 we were at was probably a little over 2. 18 Q Okay. So you haven't been to any industrial 19 solar installations in Ohio on the scale similar to 20 Frasier? 21 A No, but I did some quick math earlier today 22 with one of the maps that were handed out. And if 23 it's 120 megawatts, and I think I counted up 32 24 inverters, that's three and a half or so megawatts per 25 inverter. So roughly comparable. 298 1 And that inverter that we were at was, you 2 know, older technology. So if it was going to be 3 anything, it'd probably be louder than what they're 4 making these days. 5 MR. WIEGEL: Thank you. 6 JUDGE HICKS: Mr. Van Kley? 7 CROSS-EXAMINATION 8 BY MR. VAN KLEY: 9 Q So there was one inverter in that whole 10 project? 11 A Yeah, it was, you know, about 12/15 feet 12 long, I believe. 13 Q Twelve to fifteen long. Do you know what 14 the size of the inverters are that are planned for 15 Frasier? 16 A No, I don't. But I -- like I said, I just 17 did that quick calculation. And I'm -- would assume 18 it's roughly about the same size as the one we were 19 standing next to. 20 Q Do you how many inverters are going to be 21 put in at Frasier? 22 A If you count up the little dots on the map, 23 it came out to be, I think, 32. 24 Q Do 32 inverters make more noise than one 25 inverter, you think? 299 1 A Oh, I bet they do if you stack them up on 2 top of each other, they'd probably make a hell of a 3 lot of noise. But if they're spread out like they're 4 going to be, I don't think it's going to be a problem. 5 Q I take it from your answer to my colleague's 6 questions that you've never gone out to the Hillcrest 7 facility to hear what you could hear there. 8 A No, I haven't. But I have decided that I'm 9 going to do that before the next meeting. And if I've 10 changed my mind, I'll stand up and let you know about 11 it. 12 Q And how about any of the Hardin solar 13 facilities that have been put in? Have you gone out 14 and listened to those? 15 A No, I have not. 16 Q Have you gone out and listened to any of the 17 Madison County facilities that have been built? 18 A No, I have not. 19 MR. VAN KLEY: Okay. Thank you. 20 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you for your 21 testimony. 22 Up next is Roberta Gardener. 23 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: She's not here. 24 She left. 25 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Heidi Hulse? 300 1 Sorry if I mispronounced that. 2 MS. HULSE: No, it's Hulse. That's 3 right. 4 JUDGE HICKS: And next on the list 5 would be Mark Hulse. 6 You're not an intervenor in the case? 7 MS. HULSE: No. 8 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Could you please 9 raise your right hand. 10 WHEREUPON, 11 HEIDI HULSE, 12 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 13 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 14 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 15 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 16 spell your name for the record. 17 THE WITNESS: It's Heidi Hulse, 18 H-E-I-D-I H-U-L-S-E. 19 JUDGE HICKS: And your address 20 including any township. 21 THE WITNESS: It's 14582 Montgomery 22 Road, Fredericktown, Ohio. And it is Morris Township. 23 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And do you live or 24 work in the project area? 25 THE WITNESS: No. 301 1 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 2 DIRECT STATEMENT 3 THE WITNESS: As I said, my name is 4 Heidi Hulse. My husband and I own a solar company 5 here in Knox County. We do only residential and small 6 commercial projects. I support this Frasier Solar 7 project. 8 As a solar company, we do not install 9 industrial-scale solar. And business-wise, we are not 10 involved with this project in any way, shape, or form. 11 I do support the freedom of property rights for 12 landowners. 13 And I do have concerns about the 14 reliability of our grids, as our community population 15 is increasing as we have the new development of Intel 16 coming near us and within driving range from our 17 community. 18 We also have the issue of we have less 19 and less power plants in the state of Ohio now, which 20 can become an issue, and older plants on top of that 21 too. 22 Since our business knowledge about 23 solar, I've received an unbelievable amount of calls 24 and questions from customers, friends, and family, and 25 other people in the community, wanting to know 302 1 information about solar. 2 Being in that field, and that's our 3 profession, I was able to be able to provide a lot of 4 that information. Most of those people were open for 5 educated information, which has been very helpful. 6 And on that side, we were able to 7 explain to them what panels, like -- you know, many of 8 them had heard a lot of the misinformation and did not 9 understand all this type of information. 10 They also thought that all the farmland 11 was being used. And I had to explain to them that 12 it's a small portion of the farmland in Knox County, 13 not all the farmland. They understood more the 14 details on that and that it was a low percentage. 15 We also addressed some of the issues 16 that we have other things going on in our county like 17 farmland that's being used -- that's actually being 18 paid not to be farmed -- where we're concerned about 19 taking a portion of farmland and using it for solar 20 that can be productive but yet in the end, we're also 21 paying part of areas from the federal government to 22 not farm. 23 And these farms being set and being 24 idle in our community. 25 So after talking to a lot of these 303 1 people, they learned that there was really no reason 2 or really justifiable reason that they can actually, 3 you know, be against solar without a personal gain, 4 with no real merit. 5 We also hear a lot that solar does not 6 work in Ohio, which is completely a false statement. 7 As the owner of a solar company, let me tell you it 8 does work in Ohio. My personal electric bill this 9 month was negative 17 dollars. That's working. 10 Solar panels do not need hot weather to 11 work. They actually thrive in 50-to-70-degree 12 weather, which we have a lot of here in Ohio. We have 13 seen -- March has been an unbelievably high month for 14 us. 15 February was great too. Most think 16 February does not produce anything. February is 17 actually a very good month for us the last couple 18 years. 19 And I'm open to discussion further on 20 that if anyone would like to see any kind of 21 monitoring system so you can actually see what the 22 panels do. 23 Our monitoring system actually shows 24 every panel so that way you can kind of see what 25 panels do in different weather, different clouds, and 304 1 different things like that, which is great information 2 for knowing that solar actually does function and work 3 well in Ohio. 4 And we understand that people -- 5 sometimes people will be at events and people will 6 come up to us and say solar doesn't work. They hear 7 misinformation. And sometimes those people actually 8 were sold solar that didn't work. 9 And it usually was from a company that 10 wasn't reputable. And they went through and sold some 11 of those kind of things. 12 Where with this project, there's bonds. 13 And, you know, with residential solar, there's no 14 bonds to protect those people. So solar has been kind 15 of given a bad rap just because of, you know, systems 16 like that not working. 17 We get the calls daily trying -- for 18 people wanting us to fix those kind of systems. And 19 many of them are just really, really a mess. 20 But with you guys being the board and, 21 you know, supporting this kind of project and making 22 sure everything is in line with what it needs to be, 23 it's a huge help with that. So we don't have the same 24 kind of worries that those residential customers would 25 have. 305 1 And also, I've watched in disbelief as 2 the community just went through an election with two 3 representatives for county commissioner seats that 4 were open. 5 And just getting the emails and the 6 social media posts and all those things and mailers 7 and newspapers and everything, and I was just amazed 8 at the lies and the misinformation. 9 Being a solar company, I was just like, 10 I cannot believe this. And that's what sparked a lot 11 of the phone calls to us and things like that. And as 12 I was going through those with different customers, it 13 was just like unbelievable that we could actually look 14 at that. 15 And it was -- it was crazy. Many, many 16 lies. And it got so deep it actually hit other areas. 17 It hit customers in Cleveland. People from all over 18 were calling us. 19 It became a liberal/conservative battle 20 at that point. So it kind of turned one of these 21 things that if you believed in solar, you were no 22 longer a conservative. You had to be liberal to 23 believe in solar. I don't know how that happened in 24 our county, but it hit bigtime. 25 And it was really, really unfortunate 306 1 because we need both. We need electric and gas, not 2 just -- 3 JUDGE HICKS: Ms. Hulse, we've hit your 4 five minutes. Thank you. 5 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Thank you. 6 JUDGE HICKS: Any questions from 7 counsel? 8 Mr. Van Kley? 9 CROSS-EXAMINATION 10 BY MR. VAN KLEY: 11 Q Does your company install panels? 12 A We do residential and small commercial. 13 Q What's the largest project that you've ever 14 installed? 15 A Installed? We have been -- we've installed 16 a 90-panel system, which would be a -- 'cause we do 17 residential. Electric companies only let you install 18 a 25-case system. So 25-case system. A small 19 commercial job we did is about a 30-case system. 20 Q So how many solar panels approximately with 21 the largest project you've ever done? 22 A Ninety. 23 Q Ninety? 24 A Yeah. 25 Q Okay. And are those the same size as the 307 1 industrial panels that are going to be put -- 2 A They're a little smaller. Yeah. We do 430 3 panels, and I think most of those are five or six 4 hundred. So -- kilowatts. Yeah. So little smaller 5 scale, but the same -- the same, you know, technology 6 overall. 7 Q Okay. Thank you. 8 A Yeah. Thanks. 9 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you for -- 10 Mr. Settineri? 11 MR. SETTINERI: I think this is worth 12 it for the board to hear. I do have a question for 13 this witness. I'll ask the question. 14 JUDGE HICKS: All right. I'm warning 15 you with friendly cross now. 16 CROSS-EXAMINATION 17 BY MR. SETTINERI: 18 Q I will say you mentioned a lot of 19 misinformation with your background. What kind of 20 misinformation have you seen that was disseminated? 21 MR. VAN KLEY: Objection. 22 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Objection. 23 MR. SETTINERI: I think it's worth it 24 for the board to hear this. 25 JUDGE HICKS: She's already testified 308 1 as to misinformation. 2 Thank you for your testimony. 3 Up next is Mark Hulse. And on deck 4 would be Bob Marsell. 5 MR. HULSE: My name is Mark Hulse. 6 JUDGE HICKS: Are you an intervenor in 7 the case? 8 MR. HULSE: No, I'm not. 9 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please raise your 10 right hand. 11 WHEREUPON, 12 MARK HULSE, 13 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 14 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 15 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 16 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please state and 17 spell your name for the record. 18 THE WITNESS: Mark Hulse, M-A-R-K 19 H-U-L-S-E. 20 JUDGE HICKS: And your address 21 including township? 22 THE WITNESS: 14582 Montgomery Road, 23 Fredericktown, Ohio. 24 JUDGE HICKS: And do you live or work 25 in the project area? 309 1 THE WITNESS: I do not. 2 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead. 3 DIRECT STATEMENT 4 THE WITNESS: That was my wife that was 5 just up here. Like she said, we have a small solar 6 company in Fredericktown. And just a couple more 7 points I wanted to say that she already had spoken 8 about was, that -- the main thing is that solar 9 doesn't work in Ohio. 10 You know, we have close to 200 11 customers that probably, we have not had one that's -- 12 has not got what we've sold them or says that it 13 doesn't work. Like she said, our electric bill was 14 negative 17 this month. 15 We've had several customers call this 16 month and say we couldn't believe we have a dollar 17 twenty electric bill. Or I think the most I've heard 18 so far is like six bucks. But it definitely does work 19 if you size it right and you do it right. 20 But getting to why they work is, the 21 solar panels today are really manufactured well. A 22 lot of the concerns was for the hail damage for our 23 area. 24 They put -- they put solar panels 25 through a lot of different stress test, and they 310 1 actually shoot -- a lot of companies shoot, actually, 2 ice cannons at the panels to try to hit them to see 3 how much, you know, speed or, you know, how much 4 volume it takes to actually crack them. 5 In six years that we've been doing 6 solar, I think we've had one panel bust because a 7 customer ran into it with a lawnmower. So, I mean, 8 they're really durable. 9 The other point I was going to mention 10 was -- trying to think. Yeah. I can't remember. 11 That's it. 12 JUDGE HICKS: Any questions from 13 counsel? 14 Thank you for your testimony. 15 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 16 JUDGE HICKS: Up next is Bob Marsell. 17 Next on the list is Patti Dice. 18 Who, correct me, Mr. Van Kley, I think 19 is an intervenor. 20 She will be added to the list of those 21 to circle back to. And so on deck would be Tom 22 Whitson. 23 Mr. Marsell, are you an intervenor in 24 the case? 25 MR. MARSELL: No. 311 1 JUDGE HICKS: All right. Please raise 2 your right hand. 3 WHEREUPON, 4 BOB MARSELL, 5 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 6 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 7 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 8 JUDGE HICKS: All right. Please state 9 and spell your name for the record. 10 THE WITNESS: Bob Marsell, B-O-B 11 M-A-R-S-E-L-L. Monroe Township, 15310 Carson Road. 12 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. And do you 13 live or work in the project area? 14 THE WITNESS: I work in Clinton 15 Township. Yes. 16 JUDGE HICKS: All right. Please go 17 ahead. 18 DIRECT STATEMENT 19 THE WITNESS: I just want to thank you 20 for listening to the community. We're all kind of out 21 of our comfort zone. We're not professional speakers 22 out here. Just speaking from our heart and what we 23 think is going to be right for our community. 24 I personally do not want industrial 25 solar in Knox County. I live in Monroe Township, and 312 1 it's the agricultural township. And I believe just 2 because you put sheep underneath an industrial solar 3 panel, doesn't make it industrial -- or doesn't make 4 it agriculture. 5 And the recent election that we did 6 have here, I believe that we came out in a strong 7 force and showed what the people of Mount Vernon or 8 Knox County do not want industrial solar. 9 Some of my concerns are, basically, the 10 grading and the natural waterways. We have a lot of 11 erosion that goes around. And when they take that 12 topsoil off, are the natural waterways getting 13 affected? See, I'm not real -- I'm not real sure 14 about these things. 15 Being as it kind of came in the back 16 door, we didn't have a whole lot of time to study 17 about solar and big industrial solar areas. So we're 18 all kind of caught off guard as just common folk, you 19 know. 20 We're -- I do hear some of the Gambier, 21 Kenyon people that are all educated. But you're 22 talking to farmers. You're talking to people that 23 just -- I'm a parts manager. I have no idea about 24 industrial solar. 25 Would have been nice to have a little 313 1 bit of headway before all this stuff just kind of got, 2 really, sprung on us, in my opinion. 3 I think our commissioners that were on 4 board -- one of them is my friend, one of them I went 5 to school with -- kind of stabbed us a little bit in 6 the back by not informing us of what was going on and 7 then signing the paperwork. I don't live in Clinton 8 Township, but I sure would have felt a knife in my 9 back if I did. 10 What happens when a hailstorm hits or 11 the tornadoes that do hit Knox County? We've had them 12 out there on -- out on Harcor Road. What happens to 13 those panels when they get damaged, when they do start 14 leaking? Where do they go? 15 The recycling is not up to date on 16 these yet. It's cheaper to buy them from what I've 17 read than to actually get them repaired and recycled. 18 So do they go to a landfill? I don't know. I haven't 19 been able to research it. What do they do with them? 20 These are -- you guys are supposed to 21 be telling us this. We don't know. So what do we do, 22 buy them from China? Everything seems to come from 23 China. So I don't know. Is that where it comes from? 24 I don't know. 25 I'm just an ignorant parts manager that 314 1 has no idea because I haven't been informed. People 2 are ignorant in different things. And with all the 3 advancement in technology from the last 40/50 years, 4 do you think that solar is going to be there as the 5 primary in 40 years from now? 6 So what are we going to do with all 7 these millions of panels that are still up and around 8 the United States? Not just Knox County, not just 9 Ohio, the whole United States. They'll be obsolete. 10 What do we do with them then? Any plans? I'm not 11 knowing of anything. 12 And what I -- in my little bit of time 13 that I've had to look for it, I don't see any -- I 14 don't see anybody that's looking into that. We've got 15 to look at long-term. 40 years, I won't be here. My 16 grandkids will be. 17 The cadmium, if I'm saying that right, 18 I may not be. Does it leak into the ground? Does it 19 go into the water tables? Does it come up through the 20 grass? Do the animals eat it? We eat the animals. 21 Does it go into us? 22 I understand that it causes kidney and 23 heart, skin issues, lung issues. Do I know that for 24 the fact. Absolutely not. Mr. Lawyers, I have no 25 idea. You can go ahead and ask me. I'll tell you 315 1 have no idea. Okay? 2 But I do have one question. This good 3 neighbor agreement. What is that? Is that some kind 4 of hush money or something that you give to your 5 buddies and say hey keep your mouth shut don't create 6 any waves? That seems like a damn bribe. 7 Am I wrong there? Tell me Mr. Lawyer, 8 am I wrong? That's all I want to know. Am I wrong? 9 Am I ignorant in this? Because I'm ignorant in a lot 10 of different things. I'm not the smartest. I'm not 11 the sharpest tool in the shed. But I would like to 12 know. 13 My 30 seconds -- I'm done. So thank 14 you for your time. 15 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 16 Any questions from counsel. 17 Thank you for your testimony. 18 Up next, Tom Whitson. 19 Janet Banbury? 20 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: She had to 21 leave. 22 JUDGE HICKS: Don Moore is next. 23 Mr. Van Kley -- I believe is an 24 intervenor? 25 MR. VAN KLEY: I think it's a different 316 1 Don Moore. 2 JUDGE HICKS: Is Don Moore here? 3 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes. 4 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. And then on deck 5 is Franklin Brown. And based on the time, he's 6 probably going to be the last person we're going to 7 have time for. 8 Mr. Moore, are you an intervenor in the 9 case? 10 MR. MOORE: No. 11 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Could you please 12 raise your right hand. 13 WHEREUPON, 14 DON MOORE, 15 called as a witness and having been first duly sworn 16 to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 17 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 18 JUDGE HICKS: All right. Please state 19 and spell your name for the record. 20 THE WITNESS: Don Moore, D-O-N 21 M-O-O-R-E. 15638 Nixon Road, Miller Township, Mount 22 Vernon, Ohio. 23 JUDGE HICKS: Do you live or work in 24 the project area? 25 THE WITNESS: I'm approximately a mile 317 1 south of where some of the panels will be, if that 2 far. 3 JUDGE HICKS: Okay. Please go ahead 4 with your testimony. 5 DIRECT STATEMENT 6 THE WITNESS: I've been concerned about 7 this ever since I heard about it taking place. I have 8 been involved with it. The reason I'm concerned about 9 it, a big reason, is I used to be in the real estate 10 business. And I know what this is going to do. 11 When you look for a property, there are 12 three main criteria. First thing that you look for. 13 Those three are location, location, and location. 14 Where do you want to live? 15 When you have an opportunity to live in 16 a house not around a solar panels and there's a house 17 in around the solar panels, they are equal houses, 18 equal land, equal distance from the house, everything 19 about them equal. 20 They have the same price on that house 21 as they have on this house. Where are you going to 22 purchase you house? It's not going to be around those 23 solar panels. You're going to be going away from the 24 solar panels so you don't have to look at them or hear 25 them. 318 1 I'm very concerned for my neighbors and 2 friends, what this is going to do for their property 3 and my property. I'm concerned about the wildlife in 4 the area. I have some acreage where I have planted to 5 habitat. 6 I see eagles out there. We have eagles 7 coming back into our area. Something else we have -- 8 you don't see many of them. How many of you have seen 9 a sandhill crane lately, or heard them? People in our 10 area. Not many others. They're rare. 11 Spring I have had bobolinks go through, 12 migrating through because they like my field. They're 13 not going to like solar panels. They may even crash 14 into them thinking it's something that they can fly 15 through. They create a reflection that creates a 16 mirror, like, the birds will fly into. 17 I've got pictures of an eagle recently 18 just up on the road from me on Range Line Road right 19 across from where they plan to put solar panels. I've 20 got eagles down -- pictures of them down the road from 21 me. I've got pictures of sandhill cranes out in my 22 backyard that my neighbor sent me. I didn't happen to 23 be home that day. 24 And what is this going to do to the 25 other wildlife? The noise -- I'm within a distance. 319 1 I probably will be hearing it. And they will be 2 hearing from me all the time if I do. 3 I can hear my neighbors down the road 4 with their children playing. I can hear the traffic 5 down on Weaver Road, out on 661. Sometimes I hear the 6 airplanes over at the airport, as far away as I am. 7 So that means I'm going to be hearing 8 those solar panels, the inverters. That's not going 9 to be very pleasant. And I'm not going to be very 10 pleasant to them. I really am very concerned with the 11 people in our area and myself as to what these panels 12 may do. 13 I don't want to have them in our area. 14 It's like -- it will be like a cancer on our land. 15 They will be there probably for more than 40 years. 16 And they won't get them cleaned up. They won't 17 provide enough funds to clean them up. They're not 18 providing for how much inflation we have down the 19 road. 20 It's only a guess. Look at our 21 inflation rate, what we've had. We've had a 22 tremendous amount of inflation rate. It's going to 23 take a lot of money to clean those up. They may not 24 have that provided. 25 What will our soil be like then? They 320 1 come in there and they scrape the topsoil off. I've 2 got an area beside my house, to the west side when I 3 built, that -- making places to -- well, to put in 4 septic, they scraped the topsoil off. 5 And I've never put topsoil back on 6 there. Guess what grows there? Ragweed and weeds. 7 Probably the sheep would never want to eat them. I 8 can't guess the other grass to go there because I 9 haven't spent the money to put some topsoil back on 10 it. 11 We know down in Brown what the people 12 down there have told us that they scrape the topsoil 13 off. We've heard other people say that they scrape 14 the topsoil off the areas. 15 Do we want that for our area? No. I 16 want to see the wildlife. They're very important to 17 us. We don't know what the results will be. Man has 18 interfered with the wildlife and caused devastation to 19 them. And that's the history of mankind, what they've 20 done by doing things to them. 21 I am totally against the solar panels. 22 I don't want to see them. Neither do our neighbors. 23 And I don't think anybody else should have a say in it 24 that aren't in our area. You're out of Knox County, 25 you're out of Miller Township, shouldn't have a say. 321 1 Thank you. 2 JUDGE HICKS: Thank you. 3 Any questions from counsel? 4 Thank you for your testimony. 5 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 6 JUDGE HICKS: Is Franklin Brown -- 7 Okay. Based on the time -- and I had 8 already called Mr. Brown, so we would have tried to 9 squeeze him in, but not seeing him here, we are 10 basically at 11:30. 11 As we had said, we were going to cut it 12 off there. As I described earlier, we will be working 13 out the logistics of scheduling a second local public 14 hearing and will publish that in a future entry that 15 will give folks to plan on that. 16 I want to thank everyone that came out 17 tonight, everyone that hung on until the end. And 18 with that, we are adjourned and officially off the 19 record. 20 THE REPORTER: Okay. We are going off 21 the record at 11:29 p.m. 22 (Whereupon, at 11:29 p.m., the 23 proceeding was concluded.) 24 25 322 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I, NIC JOSEPH, the officer before whom the 3 foregoing proceedings were taken, do hereby certify 4 that any witness(es) in the foregoing proceedings, 5 prior to testifying, were duly sworn; that the 6 proceedings were recorded by me and thereafter reduced 7 to typewriting by a qualified transcriptionist; that 8 said digital audio recording of said proceedings are a 9 true and accurate record to the best of my knowledge, 10 skills, and ability; that I am neither counsel for, 11 related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the 12 action in which this was taken; and, further, that I 13 am not a relative or employee of any counsel or 14 attorney employed by the parties hereto, nor 15 financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of 16 this action. <%25587,Signature%> 17 NIC JOSEPH 18 Notary Public in and for the 19 State of Ohio 20 21 22 23 24 25 323 1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER 2 I, DAVID SHAHVERDIAN, do hereby certify that 3 this transcript was prepared from the digital audio 4 recording of the foregoing proceeding, that said 5 transcript is a true and accurate record of the 6 proceedings to the best of my knowledge, skills, and 7 ability; that I am neither counsel for, related to, 8 nor employed by any of the parties to the action in 9 which this was taken; and, further, that I am not a 10 relative or employee of any counsel or attorney 11 employed by the parties hereto, nor financially or 12 otherwise interested in the outcome of this action. 13 14 <%32489,Signature%> 15 DAVID SHAHVERDIAN 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25