1 BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF OHIO 2 - - - 3 In the Matter of the : Application of Ohio Power : 4 Company for Authority to : Establish a Standard : Case No. 16-1852-EL-SSO 5 Service Offer Pursuant to : R.C. 4928.143, in the : 6 Form of an Electric : Security Plan. : 7 ---------------------------- In the Matter of the : 8 Application of Ohio Power : Company for Approval of : Case No. 16-1853-EL-AAM 9 Certain Accounting : Authority. : 10 - - - 11 PUBLIC HEARING 12 13 Before Greta See, Attorney Examiner, at the 14 Washington State Community College, Arts & Science 15 Building, Harvey Graham Auditorium, 710 Colgate 16 Drive, Marietta, Ohio, called at 6:00 p.m. on 17 Thursday, April 13, 2017. 18 - - - 19 20 21 22 ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC. 23 222 East Town Street, Second Floor Columbus, Ohio 43215-4620 24 (614) 224-9481 - (800) 223-9481 25 - - - Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio 43215 (614)224-9481 2 1 APPEARANCES: 2 Ice Miller By Christopher L. Miller, Esq. 3 Arena District 250 West Street, Ste. 700 4 Columbus, Ohio 43215-7509 5 On behalf of American Electric Power. 6 Bruce J. Weston, Ohio Consumers' Counsel By Kevin F. Moore, Esq. 7 Assistant Consumers' Counsel Office of the Ohio Consumers' Counsel 8 10 West Broad Street Columbus, Ohio 43215 9 On behalf of the Residential Energy 10 Consumers of AEP Ohio. 11 - - - 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio 43215 (614)224-9481 3 1 Thursday Evening Session, 2 April 13, 2017. 3 - - - 4 EXAMINER SEE: The Public Utilities 5 Commission of Ohio has assigned for public hearing at 6 this time and place Case No. 16-1852-EL-SSO, et al., 7 which is entitled In the Matter of the Application of 8 Ohio Power Company for Authority to Establish a 9 Standard Service Offer Pursuant to RC 4928.143, in 10 the Form of an Electric Security Plan, and Case 11 No. 16-1853-EL-AAM entitled In the Matter of the 12 Application of Ohio Power for Approval of Certain 13 Accounting Authority. 14 My name is Greta See. I'm an 15 Attorney-Examiner in the Legal Department of the 16 Commission, and I've been assigned to this case. In 17 addition, there are -- there is another individual 18 named Sarah Parrot, who is also assigned to the case. 19 When you came to the hearing this evening, there was 20 an individual at the table and also there is an 21 individual from the Commission at the back of the 22 room, Mr. Luka -- and I'm about to really butcher his 23 last name -- Papalko -- 24 MR. PAPALKO: We'll go with that. 25 EXAMINER SEE: -- at the back of the Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio 43215 (614)224-9481 4 1 room. And outside of the theater is Lawrence 2 Hampton, and if you have some questions about the 3 Commission's process or other services that the 4 Public Utilities Commission offers, feel free to 5 approach them as you leave or in a minute if you have 6 a question about the process. Okay. If you have a 7 question about your service or some service issues 8 with Ohio Power, once I ask their counsel to stand up 9 and be -- and make an appearance, he will also 10 indicate to you if there is somebody in the room that 11 can address those questions for you. 12 Okay. At this time, I'd like to take 13 appearances on behalf of the parties that have 14 intervened in this case starting off with Ohio Power 15 Company. 16 MR. MILLER: Thank you, Your Honor. 17 Christopher L. Miller of the law firm of Ice Miller 18 for American Electric Power, and my address is 250 19 West Street, Columbus, Ohio 43215. 20 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. And on behalf of 21 Ohio's Consumers' Counsel. 22 MR. MOORE: Thank you, Your Honor. On 23 behalf of the residential energy consumers of AEP 24 Ohio, the office of the Ohio Consumers' Counsel, 25 Bruce J. Weston, Ohio Consumers' Counsel, by Kevin ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 5 1 Moore, 10 West Broad Street, Columbus, Ohio 43215. 2 EXAMINER SEE: Is there counsel for any 3 of the other intervening parties present? 4 (No response.) 5 EXAMINER SEE: As I indicated, there are 6 a number of parties who have intervened in the case. 7 As of today, there are 28 intervenors representing 8 residential customers, including low-income 9 residential customers, as well as commercial and 10 industrial customers and other consumer advocates. 11 Each of these parties represents its various 12 constituents' interests in the case before the 13 Commission. 14 On November 23rd, 2016, Ohio Power filed 15 an application with the Commission to extend its 16 current standard offer -- standard service offer in 17 the form of an electric security plan, or as we refer 18 to it at the Commission, an ESP, to be effective from 19 June 1, 2018, through May 31st, 2024. In addition to 20 tonight's hearing, there are three other public 21 hearings in this case throughout AEP's service 22 territory. An evidentiary hearing is also scheduled 23 to commence at the Commission's offices on June 6, 24 2017. 25 The purpose of this evening's hearing is ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 6 1 to receive comments from the public regarding AEP 2 Ohio's application to extend its current ESP. If you 3 have questions, I would encourage you to try to get 4 those questions answered, and then come forward to 5 present your testimony this evening. 6 As you can tell, tonight's hearing is 7 being transcribed by a court reporter. If you plan 8 to testify, please speak clearly so that the court 9 reporter can accurately record your testimony. If 10 you have a written statement, it would help if you 11 could provide a copy of that statement after you've 12 given your testimony to the court reporter. 13 When you arrived this evening, the 14 gentleman at the table outside most likely asked you 15 if you wanted to offer testimony, and that 16 information was put in a list. I will follow the 17 list in the order that you came in this evening to 18 call witnesses forward. After I finish the 19 introduction and start with testimony, as you step 20 forward, I'll ask you to take an affirmation that the 21 information you're about to give is true, and I will 22 ask each witness to state their name and provide 23 their address. Your testimony will become part of 24 the record in this case. Additionally, counsel for 25 the intervenors -- I'm sorry, for the company and the ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 7 1 intervenors, as well as myself, may ask you some 2 questions to clarify your testimony. 3 The Commission appreciates your 4 participation and you giving up your evening to come 5 here and give us your comments. And if there are no 6 questions about the process, we'll get started. 7 Okay. The first -- let me also 8 apologize now, I don't always pronounce the last 9 names correctly. So the first witness to sign to 10 offer testimony is Margaret Brewer. 11 MS. BREWER: Can I do it from here? 12 EXAMINER SEE: If you can speak loud 13 enough so the court reporter can get it, you 14 certainly can, Ms. Brewer. First state and spell 15 your name for the -- 16 MS. BREWER: It's Margaret Brewer, my 17 last name is B-r-e-w-e-r. 18 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Ms. Brewer, please 19 raise your right hand. Do you affirm that the 20 information you're about to give is true? 21 MS. BREWER: I do. 22 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. State your name 23 and your address for the record. 24 MS. BREWER: Again, it's Margaret 25 Brewer, I live at 105 Wilson Avenue here in Marietta. ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 8 1 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. 2 MS. BREWER: I appreciate you coming out 3 and giving us a chance to speak with you. I don't 4 really have any questions, but from what I've read 5 and seen, this is going to be a pretty big hit to a 6 lot of people that are small users such as myself. 7 You know, I don't have anybody else to 8 pass that cost onto like a business would. It cannot 9 be job costed. You know, I can't make it a part of a 10 doing business charge and just up my prices, because 11 I am the end-result user. 12 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. 13 MS. BREWER: So this $10 a month that's 14 going in effect is really going to hit a lot of 15 people in this area pretty hard. You know, just like 16 it says, it's about another electric bill a year for 17 people, and you only have so much money and that's 18 all you can use from. So in order to pay your bills, 19 you're going to cut down on other things and take 20 away from disposable income. 21 You know, I understand we need upgrades 22 to the system, and I truly believe that that is 23 the -- what we need to do with all our 24 infrastructure, not just electric, but everything. 25 So I don't mind paying a little bit more, but this is ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 9 1 going to impact a lot of people. I know that that's 2 something that for manufacturers and things they can 3 do away with costs. Poor little individuals, 4 homeowners, people that live -- you know, 5 individuals, you're going to bear everything. 6 There's nobody else to give it to. So I would really 7 like to be able to lower that cost if there's any way 8 that we can and still make progress to upgrade our 9 infrastructure. 10 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. 11 MS. BREWER: That's all I have to say. 12 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Thank you. Any 13 cross-examination for this witness? 14 MR. MILLER: No, ma'am. 15 EXAMINER SEE: Mr. Moore? 16 MR. MOORE: No, Your Honor. 17 EXAMINER SEE: Thank you. 18 MS. BREWER: Thank you. 19 EXAMINER SEE: The next person I have on 20 the list is Richard Wittberg. 21 MR. WITTBERG: Very close. 22 EXAMINER SEE: Wittberg. 23 MR. WITTBERG: Wittberg. 24 EXAMINER SEE: Wittberg. 25 MR. WITTBERG: No e-n. ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 10 1 EXAMINER SEE: Mr. Wittberg, if you'd 2 please raise your right hand. Do you affirm that the 3 information you're about to give is true? 4 MR. WITTBERG: I do. 5 EXAMINER SEE: State and spell your name 6 for the record, and give us your address. 7 MR. WITTBERG: Richard, R-i-c-h-a-r-d, 8 Wittberg, W-i-t-t-b-e-r-g. I live at 209 Wyoming 9 Road here in Marietta. 10 My job is Health Commissioner of 11 Washington County, that means that I pay very close 12 attention to things like health disparities and 13 things like health in all policies. Appalachians are 14 every bit as much of a health disparities population 15 as any racial subgroup. We have every bit as high a 16 rate of diabetes, every bit as high a rate of 17 poverty. This is the sort of policy that will impact 18 health. 19 We already have people that have to make 20 choices between medication and food, and an extra $10 21 a month is going to be that much less medication or 22 that much less food. This is a tax on the poor, 23 because they're the ones that are going to suffer the 24 most from this. This is not something that you can 25 save by using less electricity. ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 11 1 You know, it might be a little different 2 if this was something that was per kilowatt-hour, 3 this is not. This is something that's a flat charge. 4 You cannot reduce this extra charge by consuming 5 less. 6 This is the sort of policy that is going 7 to hurt a lot of residents in Appalachian Ohio, and 8 there has to be a better way to do this than putting 9 a tax like this that's going to hit the poorest 10 people the hardest. That's all I have to say. 11 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Any 12 cross-examination for Mr. Wittberg? 13 MR. MOORE: No, Your Honor. 14 MR. MILLER: No. 15 MR. WITTBERG: Thank you. 16 EXAMINER SEE: Thank you. 17 Michael J. Marla. 18 MR. MARKS: Marks, hello. 19 EXAMINER SEE: Marks. 20 MR. MARKS: Hello, Your Honor. 21 EXAMINER SEE: Is that M-a-r-k? 22 MR. MARKS: M-a-r-k-s. 23 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Could you -- sir, 24 could you step forward? Sometimes it's difficult if 25 there's some rustling in the audience for me to catch ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 12 1 all the words. 2 MR. MARKS: Certainly. 3 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Raise your right 4 hand, please. Do you affirm that the information 5 you're about to give is true? 6 MR. MARKS: I do. 7 EXAMINER SEE: Thank you. Please state 8 and spell your name for the record, and give us your 9 address. 10 MR. MARKS: It's Michael J. Marks, 11 M-i-c-h-a-e-l, initial J., M-a-r-k-s, 2474 Robinson 12 Hill Road. 13 All right. Well, anyway, first off, I'd 14 like to say that I'm not against reasonable and 15 fairly structured rate changes, and I believe that 16 the value and the convenience and the comfort I get 17 for every dollar I spend on electricity is well worth 18 it. 19 I am, however, against regressive and 20 unfair increases that have small users subsidizing 21 big users. Every time we have a fixed-rate charge -- 22 change or increase, the effective kilowatt volume 23 costs more per kilowatt for that low user and the 24 higher users pay less of an effective rate overall. 25 So just based on fairness, I know we have a lot of ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 13 1 kind people here, but, you know, below-volume users 2 shouldn't be subsidizing the big-volume user, the 3 person who's running their jacuzzi, who's keeping 4 their air conditioner at 65 degrees in the summer and 5 their heat at 80 in the winter, it's just not fair. 6 We've got people that are trying to save, and 7 ironically, and conversely and inversely, they are 8 subsidizing large users with every time these fixed 9 rate charges go up. So just based on the principle 10 of fairness, I'm against that. 11 Why not change the volumetric structure? 12 Why not have a tiered structure where everybody pays 13 the same rate per kilowatt-hour until they reach a 14 certain tier, then heavy users pay a little bit 15 higher? This would incentivize conservation. This 16 rate change does not incentivize conservation at all, 17 it incentivizes use, and that's more wear and tear on 18 infrastructure. That's -- I think that could be 19 avoided with a -- the appropriate economic incentives 20 and these are not those incentives. I just think 21 it's an immoral charge. 22 We know that a company needs to make 23 money. I'm all for AEP making a profit. I'm all for 24 reliable infrastructure, but not the little person 25 subsidizing the big user. ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 14 1 I've got a lot more here, but that's the 2 basics of it. So that's just it in a nutshell. I 3 just think it's immoral, I think it's 4 counter-productive, it does not offer the appropriate 5 incentives to anybody out there. 6 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. 7 MR. MARKS: That's all I've got. 8 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Are you willing to 9 give us your statement for the court reporter's 10 reference and mine? 11 MR. MARKS: Yeah, such as it is. 12 EXAMINER SEE: Oh, long reach, okay. 13 MR. MARKS: Okay. Thank you. 14 EXAMINER SEE: Hold on just a second. 15 Is there any cross-examination for this witness, 16 Mr. Miller? 17 MR. MILLER: No cross. 18 EXAMINER SEE: Mr. Moore? 19 MR. MOORE: No questions, Your Honor. 20 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Out of curiosity, 21 Mr. Marks -- 22 MR. MARKS: Yes. 23 EXAMINER SEE: -- are you a residential 24 customer as well as a commercial or a business owner? 25 MR. MARKS: I am a residential customer, ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 15 1 I'm not a business owner. 2 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. 3 MR. MARKS: Thank you. 4 EXAMINER SEE: Thank you. 5 The next witness is Flo Beidler. 6 Ms. Beidler, was I even close? 7 MS. BEIDLER: Beidler. 8 EXAMINER SEE: Beidler, okay. 9 MS. BEIDLER: Close enough. 10 EXAMINER SEE: Thank you. Please raise 11 your right hand. Do you affirm that the information 12 you're about to give is true? 13 MS. BEIDLER: Yes. 14 EXAMINER SEE: Thank you. 15 Please state and spell your name for the 16 record, and give us your address. 17 MS. BEIDLER: Okay. Florence 18 F-l-o-r-e-n-c-e, Beidler, B-e-i-d-l-e-r. Got it. 19 EXAMINER SEE: Yes. 20 MS. BEIDLER: Okay. I agree with 21 everything everybody has said here. I can tell you 22 that -- you know, you ask where do I live? We live 23 in Appalachia, okay, and people here are not all 24 wealthy. In fact, most people are pulling real hard 25 just to make it, and this is a really, really big ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 16 1 increase. 2 I don't mind paying my fair share. If I 3 use it, I'll pay for it. You make a little bit of 4 profit, fine, but I really think that this increase 5 is just too much for the people in this particular 6 area. I love electricity. I love having lights on, 7 you know, I'm one of the first ones, but I also 8 conserve. I had to agree with you on that, this 9 isn't encouraging conserving, and we do need to 10 conserve, all of us. We have an environment that's 11 in real trouble. 12 But anyway, that's all I have to say, 13 but it is too much. Thank you. 14 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Any 15 cross-examination? 16 MR. MILLER: No, Your Honor. 17 MR. MOORE: No questions, Your Honor. 18 EXAMINER SEE: Thank you. Tom Vi- -- 19 MR. VUKOVIC: Vukovic. 20 EXAMINER SEE: Thank you for saving me. 21 MR. VUKOVIC: It's all right. My 22 brother pronounces it "Vukovic," and other people 23 pronounce it "Vukovic," but my mother chose 24 "Vukovic," so that's how we pronounce it. 25 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Please raise your ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 17 1 right hand. Do you affirm that the information 2 you're about to give is true? 3 MR. VUKOVIC: I do. 4 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Please state and 5 spell your name. 6 MR. VUKOVIC: Sure. My name's Tom, 7 V-u-k-o-v-i-c, 115 Flint Wood Drive, Marietta. 8 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. 9 MR. VUKOVIC: I'm also ward councilman, 10 and have been for the last 15 years in the city of 11 Marietta. 12 First of all, speaking for the number 13 one constituent in my ward, which is my wife, I would 14 say that we are extreme conservers in our house. In 15 our household, we pay minimal bills, and a -- I truly 16 do believe on her behalf that an additional $10 per 17 month for monthly fixed charges is outrageous. 18 I can tell you that as a city 19 councilman, I couldn't get away with that kind of 20 rate increase for our two enterprise funds, which are 21 water and sewer, just based on the fact that for 22 whatever the reason we need that. We run our city 23 based on the fact -- or our enterprise funds based on 24 the fact that the user pays and we meet our expenses. 25 Now, I understand that AEP has ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 18 1 stockholders that are out there that need to be -- 2 receive a return on their investment. I can say that 3 based on my -- the little research that I have done, 4 they're looking at a 4 to 6 percent rate growth over 5 the next year. That says to me that they are 6 anticipating that additional $10 not only from me, 7 but from all of my constituents. 8 Prior to -- we are -- we also aggregate 9 electricity and gas in this community. We do that -- 10 we have done that to save our constituents those 11 dollars where we could. Prior to that, I was the 12 apples-to-apples person, because I was the special 13 utilities chair. And I would get the calls from 14 those people, senior citizens, people of low income 15 who were looking for a way to save money. 16 Based on that fact, it doesn't matter. 17 I mean, there will be -- there will be some savings, 18 but this $10 increase per month is going to hurt many 19 of my constituents and also other -- and the other 20 people that all of us council people represent in our 21 city. 22 AEP's earnings for the fourth quarter of 23 last year increased over 2015 from $3.65 to $3.94. 24 That says to me that they're doing really well. Why 25 they need to do well on the backs of -- of my ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 19 1 constituents and other customers in AE- -- or in Ohio 2 is beyond me. I think reasonable increases are fine, 3 I think justifiable increases are fine, but I think 4 for the PUCO to just allow an increase because AEP 5 wants it is -- is wrong. 6 We are also dealing with an issue with 7 AEP right now, we had a constituent who actually 8 contacted all of us because AEP came in and clear-cut 9 the trees on her street because they were putting 10 transmission lines in. And while I don't agree with 11 that, they have put out a pamphlet, and in that 12 pamphlet it says at their discretion they can come in 13 and wipe out a -- take out any trees or prune any 14 trees that they want. 15 Of course, we in Marietta are a tree 16 city USA. What they did on 8th Street in the city of 17 Marietta is embarrassing to say the least, difficult 18 for us as council people to explain to constituents 19 who don't understand that issue. And seems to me on 20 the part of AEP when you're talking about a level of 21 service that if they are going to do those things in 22 a community, they have -- they have an extreme 23 responsibility to explain or communicate with 24 constituents about those kind of things. 25 So we've got the same issue here, why do ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 20 1 they need an additional $10 from us per month? 2 What's that all about? What's the justification? I 3 haven't seen that. As a council person who has 4 served for 19 years, I think that this is an 5 outrageous increase and the PUCO should deny it. 6 Thank you. 7 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Just a minute. 8 Just a moment. 9 MR. VUKOVIC: Oh. 10 EXAMINER SEE: Any cross-examination for 11 the witness? 12 MR. MILLER: No cross-examination, Your 13 Honor. 14 MR. MOORE: No questions, Your Honor. 15 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. 16 MR. VUKOVIC: Thank you. 17 EXAMINER SEE: Thank you. 18 Next witness is Luke Sulfridge. 19 MR. SULFRIDGE: Got it. Very good. 20 EXAMINER SEE: Thank you. Please raise 21 your right hand. Do you affirm that the information 22 you're about to give is true? 23 MR. SULFRIDGE: I do. 24 EXAMINER SEE: Thank you. 25 State and spell your name for the ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 21 1 record, and then provide us your address. 2 MR. SULFRIDGE: Sure. Luke Sulfridge, 3 last name's spelled S-u-l-f-r-i-d-g-e. 4 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. 5 MR. SULFRIDGE: Address is 445 Timber 6 Line Drive in Vincent, Ohio. 7 EXAMINER SEE: Go ahead with your 8 testimony. 9 MR. SULFRIDGE: Right here in Washington 10 County. 11 I speak today both as a residential 12 customer and also as the director of a nonprofit 13 called Ohio's Son. We're a statewide advocacy 14 organization helping to scale up the distributed 15 solar market statewide in Ohio and happen to reside 16 here in Washington County. 17 Fixed charges are very problematic for 18 folks wanting to go solar. One of the primary 19 reasons folks go solar is to control their energy 20 costs. So by allowing fixed charges to increase 21 exponentially puts that much more of the bill that 22 the customer has no longer the ability to control. 23 You have the same problem with efficiency the folks 24 spoke on earlier. 25 Specific to this region, the more money ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 22 1 we can keep here locally the better. That's long 2 been an issue in Appalachia, that not enough of 3 resources stay close and local and can be recycled to 4 our fine local businesses. So it really is an 5 outrage that the proposal at the table is to double 6 fixed charges. 7 In my prior life, I worked in social 8 services and saw firsthand how little folks had to 9 work with. Some communities I worked in, the average 10 SNAP benefit was $8 a month. 11 EXAMINER SEE: I'm sorry to interrupt 12 you, but you used the term SNAP. Could you define 13 that? 14 MR. SULFRIDGE: Is your the Supplemental 15 Nutrition Assistance Program, or what's commonly 16 known as food stamps. So when you talk about a $10 17 increase, that may impact some households very 18 severely for their average budget. 19 I would urge strongly that the 20 Commission oppose this rate increase and allow the 21 consumers to make their own choice of how they can 22 reduce their energy costs. 23 EXAMINER SEE: Thank you. Any 24 cross-examination for this witness? 25 MR. MILLER: No cross-examination. ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 23 1 MR. MOORE: No questions, Your Honor. 2 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Thank you. 3 Mr. Hampton, is there another? Thank 4 you. 5 James Cunningham. 6 MR. CUNNINGHAM: (Inaudible.) 7 THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry? 8 EXAMINER SEE: You wish to pass, sir? 9 MR. CUNNINGHAM: (Nods head.) 10 EXAMINER SEE: I need you to answer. 11 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Huh? 12 EXAMINER SEE: You wish to pass? 13 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yeah. 14 EXAMINER SEE: John Trautner. 15 MR. TRAUTNER: Yes, I wish to pass. 16 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Lynn Wise. Ma'am, 17 could you raise your right hand, please? Do you 18 affirm that the information you're about to give is 19 true? 20 MS. WISE: Yes, I do. 21 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Please state and 22 spell your name for the record, and provide us your 23 address. 24 MS. WISE: My name is Lynn Wise, 25 L-y-n-n, Wise, W-i-s-e is my last name. I live at ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 24 1 270 Ridgewood Drive, Apartment B, Marietta, Ohio. 2 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Go ahead with your 3 testimony. 4 MS. WISE: I am one of those low-income, 5 retired on fixed-income persons who are going to be 6 affected by this increase because it's not going to 7 be able to be controlled by us, and I'm living in a 8 HUD subsidized apartment complex with a lot of other 9 low-income people. 10 I don't work because I -- I like -- I 11 would rather give a young person a job instead of 12 taking it and having a subsidy on my income. And 13 it's just going to be hard on me to keep up with the 14 rest of the uncontrollable standards of living. 15 That's all I have to say. 16 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Any 17 cross-examination? 18 MR. MILLER: No cross-examination, Your 19 Honor. 20 MR. MOORE: No questions, Your Honor. 21 MS. WISE: Thank you. 22 EXAMINER SEE: Thank you, Ms. Wise. 23 Dawn Wittberg. Ms. Wittberg, raise your 24 right hand. Do you affirm that the information 25 you're about to give is true? ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 25 1 MS. WITTBERG: I do. 2 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. State and spell 3 your name for the record, and provide us your 4 address. 5 MS. WITTBERG: Dawn Wittberg, D-a-w-n, 6 W-i-t-t-b-e-r-g, 1020 Hadley Lane. 7 EXAMINER SEE: Any relation to the other 8 gentleman? 9 MS. WITTBERG: Married to him once upon 10 a time, but no more. 11 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. Go ahead with your 12 testimony. 13 MS. WITTBERG: I would invite you to 14 leave by going down Hadley Lane, it's just down the 15 hill. I think what you will see is that you would 16 see a lot of houses with not a lot of lights on 17 already. It's cheaper for a lot of us to stay in our 18 own homes. There's no way to live more cheaply 19 unless we're subsidized, go into subsidized housing, 20 which there isn't enough of in our county at all. 21 I have a gas furnace, I have a gas hot 22 water tank, I have a gas stove, I do not have central 23 air, and I try to avoid using the drier as much as 24 possible; so I'm using just about the minimum I can. 25 From the looks of the dark houses on my street, I ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 26 1 think most people are already kind of tapped out on 2 electricity. It is my largest bill, and it is a 3 utility bill. My electric bill, even though I really 4 minimize, is higher than my property taxes, it is 5 higher than my income taxes. It's my highest bill, 6 and yet there will be no reward to me by paying more. 7 I know the people on my street who are 8 largely retired, semi-retired, that's called can't 9 make it on retirement, or underemployed. And it's a 10 nice little street where, you know, people are proud 11 to get by, but I don't think we're going to get by 12 if -- if rates keep rising this way. What's 13 Washington County supposed to do? 14 EXAMINER SEE: Any cross-examination for 15 Ms. Wittberg? 16 MR. MILLER: No cross-examination, Your 17 Honor. 18 MR. MOORE: No questions, Your Honor. 19 EXAMINER SEE: Thank you. 20 Is there anybody present that did not 21 sign up to offer testimony that wishes to do so? 22 (No response.) 23 EXAMINER SEE: Okay. If that's the 24 case, I thank you very much for taking time out of 25 your evening to come forward and give the Commission ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 27 1 your opinion on the application that is before us. 2 Like I said before, there will be other public 3 hearings being held throughout AEP's service 4 territory, and this becomes part of the Commission's 5 docket about this case. 6 Thank you again, and the hearing is 7 adjourned. 8 (Thereupon, the hearing was 9 concluded at 6:36 p.m.) 10 - - - 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 28 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I do hereby certify that the foregoing 3 is a true and correct transcript of the proceedings 4 taken by me in this matter on Thursday, April 13, 5 2017, and carefully compared with my original 6 stenographic notes. 7 8 9 _________________________ Carolyn D. Ross, 10 Registered Professional Reporter and Notary 11 Public in and for the State of Ohio. 12 13 14 My commission expires April 3, 2019. 15 (CDR-83660) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481