1 BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION OF OHIO 2 - - - 3 In the Matter of the : Application of Ohio Power : 4 Company for Authority to : Establish a Standard : Case No. 16-1852-EL-SSO 5 Service Offer Pursuant to : RC 4928.143 in the Form of: 6 an Electric Security Plan : 7 In the Matter of the : Application of Ohio Power : 8 Company for Approval of : Case No. 16-1853-EL-AAM Certain Accounting : 9 Authority. : 10 11 - - - 12 PUBLIC HEARING 13 before Sarah J. Parrot, Hearing Examiner, and Beth 14 Trombold, Commissioner, at the Bucyrus City Hall 15 Council Chambers, 500 South Sandusky Avenue, Bucyrus, 16 Ohio, called at 6:00 p.m. on Monday, April 10, 2017. 17 - - - 18 19 20 21 22 ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC. 222 East Town Street, Second Floor 23 Columbus, Ohio 43215-5201 (614) 224-9481 - (800) 223-9481 24 25 - - - ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 2 1 APPEARANCES: 2 American Electric Power By Matthew McKenzie 3 One Riverside Plaza Columbus, Ohio 43215-2373 4 5 On behalf of American Electric Power Service Corporation. 6 7 Bruce E. Weston, Ohio Consumers' Counsel By Kevin Moore 8 10 West Broad Street Columbus, Ohio 43215 9 10 On behalf of the Residential Consumers of American Electric Power Ohio. 11 12 - - - 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 3 1 Monday Evening Session, 2 April 10, 2017. 3 - - - 4 EXAMINER PARROT: Let's get started. The 5 Public Utilities Commission of Ohio has assigned for 6 public hearing at this time and place Case No. 7 16-1852-EL-SSO which is captioned In the Matter of 8 the Application of Ohio Power Company for Authority 9 to Establish a Standard Service Offer Pursuant to RC 10 4928.143 in the Form of an Electric Security Plan, 11 and in Case No. 16-1853-EL-AAM captioned In the 12 Matter of the Application of Ohio Power Company for 13 Approval of Certain Accounting Authority. 14 Good evening, everyone. My name is Sarah 15 Parrot. I am an Attorney-Examiner with the 16 Commission's legal department. I will be conducting 17 the public hearing this evening. Presiding with me 18 to my left here is Commissioner Beth Trombold. 19 COMMISSIONER TROMBOLD: Good evening. I 20 got to meet a couple of you when I arrived. I just 21 wanted to say thank you for having us here today. 22 These kinds of public hearings are really important 23 for the Commission to find out what you're thinking 24 about cases that are pending before us and to be part 25 of the record and considered when we make a decision. ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 4 1 I'm one of five Commissioners appointed 2 by Governor Kasich to look over these types of 3 matters in cases that come before us. And today I 4 will be listening intently and taking notes, and, 5 again, this becomes part of the record. And 6 Attorney-Examiner Parrot will be leading the hearing 7 itself, so thank you. 8 EXAMINER PARROT: Also with us this 9 evening are personnel from the Commission's Public 10 Affairs and Service Monitoring and Enforcement 11 Departments. Lee Gary is standing at the rear of the 12 room there and Jill Kocher as well at the back. If 13 you have questions about general utility matters, 14 anything that's just general types of questions about 15 your utility service, they can assist you, but 16 they're not here this evening to help you with the 17 specifics of the Company's application that we are 18 here to discuss this evening. And I'll get into that 19 in just a bit. 20 At this time, before we do that, let's 21 get started with appearances on behalf of the 22 parties, and we will start with Ohio Power Company. 23 MR. McKENZIE: Matthew McKenzie, American 24 Electric Power Service Corporation, 1 Riverside 25 Plaza, Columbus, Ohio, 43215, on behalf of Ohio Power ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 5 1 Company. 2 EXAMINER PARROT: On behalf of the Ohio 3 Consumers' Counsel. 4 MR. MOORE: Thank you, your Honor, 5 Commissioner Trombold, on behalf of the Residential 6 Consumers of AEP Ohio, the Office of the Ohio 7 Consumers' Counsel Bruce A. Weston, Consumers' 8 Counsel, by Kevin Moore, 10 West Broad Street, 9 Columbus, Ohio, 43215. 10 EXAMINER PARROT: We will do our best to 11 speak up. I don't believe our microphone is on for 12 us this evening, but if you do have trouble hearing, 13 please let us know, and we'll definitely repeat 14 ourselves. 15 Any other counsel in the room 16 representing any of the parties to the case? 17 All right. I do note, however, that 18 there are a number of other parties that have 19 formally intervened in these proceedings. There are 20 intervenors representing residential customers, 21 commercial customers, industrial customers and many 22 other consumer advocates. Each of these parties 23 represents its various constituents in the case 24 before the Commission. 25 On November 23rd, 2016 Ohio Power Company ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 6 1 filed an application with the Commission to establish 2 a standard service offer in the form of an Electric 3 Security Plan or ESP to be in effect for the period 4 June 2018 through May of 2024. 5 The four local public hearings scheduled 6 in this case are just one aspect of this case 7 process. An evidentiary hearing is also scheduled to 8 commence on June 6, 2016 at the Commission offices in 9 Columbus, Ohio. 10 The purpose of this evening's public 11 hearing is to receive comments from the public 12 regarding Ohio Power Company's application in this 13 case. It is not a question and answer session, but 14 it's your opportunity to let the Commission know what 15 you think about Ohio Power Company's application. 16 Tonight's hearing as you probably noticed 17 is being transcribed by a court reporter. If you 18 plan to testify, please speak clearly so that the 19 court reporter can accurately reflect your comments 20 on the record. Also, if you have prepared a written 21 statement, it would be helpful if you would provide a 22 copy to the court reporter. 23 When you arrived, you should have been 24 offered the opportunity to sign up to testify. After 25 I finish with my introduction, I will begin calling ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 7 1 witnesses forward that have signed the sign-up sheet. 2 I will ask each witness to come up to the podium and 3 face the court reporter. Before you give your 4 comments, I will ask you to state your name and 5 address. Before you present your testimony, I will 6 also ask you to take an oath or affirmation that what 7 you're about to say is the truth. 8 Your testimony will then be considered 9 part of the official record in the case, and it will 10 be reviewed by the Commission before a final decision 11 is made on the application. 12 Additionally, the parties to the case and 13 I will be permitted to ask you questions about your 14 statement. Should you decide that you do not wish to 15 testify when I call your name, you can pass to the 16 next witness. And once you have finished testifying 17 or if you're here just to observe, please, of course, 18 feel free to leave at any time you wish. 19 The Commission appreciates your 20 participation in tonight's hearing, and we want 21 everyone who wishes to make a public statement to 22 have the opportunity to do so. 23 At this time, I'm going to begin calling 24 witnesses forward and our first witness is Beth 25 Eckersley. And I'm also going to apologize in ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 8 1 advance if I mispronounce names. 2 MS. ECKERSLEY: You got that one right. 3 EXAMINER PARROT: Not my strong suit. 4 Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm 5 that the testimony you're about to give will be the 6 truth? 7 MS. ECKERSLEY: I do so swear. 8 EXAMINER PARROT: All right. Please 9 state your full name and address for the record. 10 MS. ECKERSLEY: Beth A. Eckersley, and 11 this is my husband, Douglas Eckersley. We reside at 12 2488 Merbrook Road, that's Columbus, Ohio, 43235. 13 EXAMINER PARROT: Okay, thank you. 14 MS. ECKERSLEY: Good evening. As I said, 15 we are Doug and Beth Eckersley. We have lived in 16 Ohio for over 20 years. We have owned property in 17 Ohio for over 20 years. We have voted in almost 18 every election since moving to Ohio over 20 years 19 ago. 20 We have also been American Electric Power 21 customers for over 20 years. This is not by choice. 22 We have not had any other option. A while back, we 23 chose IGS which is an alternative energy provider. 24 Our electric bills still came from AEP and it 25 included our energy use history and the IGS charges ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 9 1 including their per kilowatt hour rate. 2 Shortly after we switched to IGS, AEP 3 revised our budget amount raising it significantly. 4 As it was not the time of year for the annual 5 reconciliation of our budget account, we believe this 6 adjustment was due to the switch to IGS. 7 In March of last year, we received a 8 disconnect notice from AEP. They claim that our 9 monthly payments had been received several days 10 late. We were surprised that they would consider 11 disconnecting us. According to our bill, we had over 12 $500 accrued on the balance of our budget account. 13 The disconnect notice indicated that we now owed more 14 than $400. We could not figure out how almost a 15 thousand dollars had disappeared. 16 I called AEP and asked for an 17 explanation. No logical one was provided and two 18 customer service representatives hung up on me during 19 my pursuit for answers. The third person I spoke 20 with informed me that the budget amount was for AEP 21 charges only and did not apply to my IGS charges. 22 I expressed confusion and disbelief since 23 the budget amount had been adjusted upwards shortly 24 after I switched to IGS. She said that AEP had been 25 paying IGS on my behalf out of the goodness of their ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 10 1 heart, and I now owed them for those payments. 2 She also said that AEP would have had no 3 way of creating a budget that would include the IGS 4 charges as they could not anticipate my energy usage 5 or what IGS would charge. This, of course, was 6 ludicrous since my energy usage history and the IGS 7 rate are printed on the bill which AEP generates each 8 month. I again expressed my concern and disbelief 9 and was told that I had the option of paying up or 10 being disconnected. 11 Within minutes after finishing my 12 telephone call with AEP, I contacted YellowLite, a 13 company that installs solar panel arrays. I 14 discussed with them our options for having solar 15 arrays installed in our home and made arrangements to 16 go solar. 17 During the conversation, they asked 18 questions regarding my energy usage. So I referenced 19 my AEP bill for that information. On the bill in 20 small, gray-on-gray print, I saw the explanation the 21 AEP customer service representative had been so 22 loathe to give me. "Please note that failure to pay 23 charges for competitive retail electric services may 24 result in loss of those products and services, the 25 cancellation of your contract with the competitive ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 11 1 retail service provider and your return to AEP Ohio's 2 standard offer for energy services." 3 When a change is made to an alternative 4 energy provider, AEP does not inform their budget 5 customers that the budget amount does not cover the 6 fees for both AEP and the alternative energy 7 provider. AEP lets their budget customers who have 8 chosen a competitive retail electric service provider 9 to have a false sense of security. 10 The customers' budget amount is printed 11 on the monthly bill, the customer pays the budget 12 amount each month, their payments are accepted and 13 they are lulled into the belief that they are on a 14 budget that includes all charges. 15 Should such a customer be even a day or 16 two late with their payments, AEP then closes the 17 trap and issues a disconnect notice hoping that the 18 customer will not be able to pay the full amount, 19 will fall into arrears and they can then end the 20 contract with the alternative energy provider and 21 charge the customer whatever rate they choose. 22 If AEP had competition, they would never 23 be able to behave in such a fashion. If AEP had 24 competition, they would not be able to charge 25 residential service charges, transmission service ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 12 1 charges, distribution service charges, generation 2 charges, customer charges, retail stability rider 3 fees, phase and recovery rider fees and deferred 4 asset phase and rider fees which total more than the 5 charges for the actual energy itself, even during the 6 coldest weather months or the warmest summer seasons. 7 In today's society, having electrical 8 service to one's home is a basic necessity. AEP 9 should not be allowed to take advantage of that 10 situation by charging continuously rising fees. 11 If their industry is changing, they 12 should be required to adjust to the changing times 13 like any other company. They certainly should not be 14 allowed to abuse their customers that have no other 15 options. Thank you very much. 16 EXAMINER PARROT: Thank you. 17 Any questions from counsel? 18 MR. McKENZIE: No questions. 19 EXAMINER PARROT: Questions? 20 MR. MOORE: No questions, your Honor. 21 EXAMINER PARROT: Thank you. All right. 22 Our next witness this evening is Sis 23 Love, I believe. Please state your name and address. 24 MS. LOVE: Garnet Love, 936 South East 25 Street, Bucyrus, Ohio. ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 13 1 EXAMINER PARROT: And raise your right 2 hand. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you 3 are about to give will be the truth? 4 MS. LOVE: I do. 5 EXAMINER PARROT: Please proceed. 6 MS. LOVE: Yes, in looking over the 7 papers that were handed out to us this evening, I 8 noticed that the last two items when they're talking 9 about the proposed new riders, the sub metering 10 refers to a practice where utility services are 11 resold to consumers by middle men, and it goes on to 12 explain that, but there's no amount of money that 13 they're saying how much that's going to generate or 14 how much that is going to cost. 15 Likewise, with the next item that's on 16 there about the new automaker credit which will 17 subsidize increased utilization or expansion of 18 automakers facilities in AEP Ohio service territory, 19 likewise, there's nothing there that says how much 20 that's going to generate, will be generated for that 21 and how much will be spent for that because most of 22 those -- both of those seem like that's something 23 that might happen but really will it happen? That's 24 all I have. 25 EXAMINER PARROT: Any questions? ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 14 1 MR. McKENZIE: No questions. 2 EXAMINER PARROT: Counsel, questions? 3 MR. MOORE: No questions, your Honor. 4 EXAMINER PARROT: Commissioner, 5 questions? 6 COMMISSIONER TROMBOLD: No questions. 7 EXAMINER PARROT: Miss Love? I'm sorry, 8 Miss Love, just -- I have one question for you, just 9 so the record is clear. Again, the court reporter is 10 taking everything down, you do reference a document 11 you're referring to. Could you just state for the 12 record what it is you're looking at for us? 13 MS. LOVE: It says AEP Ohio Electric 14 Security Plan. 15 EXAMINER PARROT: Who's the author of the 16 document? 17 MS. LOVE: I have no clue. It says 18 Office of Ohio Consumers' Counsel. 19 EXAMINER PARROT: Okay, thank you. 20 That's very helpful. Thank you very much. 21 Our next witness is Sharon Estrada. 22 MS. ESTRADA: Good evening, I'm Sharon -- 23 Oh, I've got to take an oath. 24 EXAMINER PARROT: We'll do that first. 25 Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 15 1 give will be the truth? 2 MS. ESTRADA: Yes. 3 EXAMINER PARROT: And you already gave us 4 your name. Your address, please. 5 MS. ESTRADA: The truth is my opinion. 6 EXAMINER PARROT: And your address? 7 MS. ESTRADA: I live at 903 Reid Street, 8 Bucyrus. 9 EXAMINER PARROT: Thank you. Go ahead. 10 MS. ESTRADA: The first gal, she read off 11 some of the things. I knew I was against this 12 security thing before when they were going to have it 13 for eight years and a guaranteed profit. I did that 14 on the next, so that will be on the record somewhere. 15 Then I knew, I knew a year or two later 16 they'd be crying back to you because I figure you're 17 their sugar daddy. You oppose -- or you don't 18 oppose, you approve just about everything they ask 19 for and that makes me very angry. 20 And I can read off all the things that 21 the first gal read off about all the different riders 22 and this and that that's on my bill and even at the 23 bottom there's like three more items there which 24 probably still are around from the civil war charges, 25 I don't know, but I'm not happy with it at all. ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 16 1 This thing is not a fixed rate. It's a 2 progressive fee. And if they're going to charge 3 60 percent more this year, then two-and-a-half times 4 next year, what are they going to do 2019? 2020? 5 You know, I know they're going to come crying back to 6 you we've got to have some more money. I figured 7 that if you run a business, you should put some of 8 your profit into making your business up-to-date, 9 keep it going. Seems to me that would make sense. 10 It wasn't too long ago they had charged 11 us for something, because a lot of this goes on that 12 you never even know until somebody says something, 13 and it came to millions of dollars. And then someone 14 suggested, well, give them back their money because 15 you never finished the project you were going to do, 16 whatever. 17 Well, a court or a commission, whatever, 18 said, "Oh, you don't have to give them back their 19 money. Just take your millions and go on your way." 20 Now, what did they do with the millions? Did they 21 put them into their infrastructure to make it better 22 to get us electricity which you know the whole world 23 runs on, or did they pocket it and give it to their 24 investors? Who knows. 25 They could have done a lot of good things ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 17 1 with those millions of dollars that they had, but I 2 am angry because I know they don't invest enough into 3 their business. I didn't look up to see how much 4 their CEOs and all of this make. And I know all of 5 you are qualified because I looked you up, so you're 6 not new to anything and just thrown in there for 7 political purposes. 8 So I'm saying that I don't think AEP -- 9 if they can't get along on what they've got and they 10 can't use some of their profits to make their 11 business better, update it -- Oh, and there was a 12 time they wanted us to be owners of those failed 13 plants they had up there around the lakes, too. I 14 don't know who put a pish on that, but anyhow, we 15 weren't going to get any stock, but we were going to 16 be owners, but we didn't get any stock. 17 Anyhow, all of this just is just to me 18 like a big, fat crooked deal, and it's not a fixed 19 rate. According to what I saw, I didn't even get to 20 the other side of the page yet, but what I saw was it 21 was going to go up like 8.40, that's what it is now, 22 and that's supposed to be billing and maintenance. 23 It's going to go up to 13 something this 24 year. And then 2018, it's going to go to 18 25 something. So it's a progressive fee. It is not a ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 18 1 fixed rate. If it was going to be a fixed rate, they 2 could say, okay, fixed rate now is $18.25. Good 3 enough. But they don't. It's going to be 4 progressive. And each year or two years, it's going 5 to get more and more. 6 And while everybody is saying, "Oh, you 7 got to save electricity, you've got to save your 8 energy, buy special light bulbs, do this, do that," 9 this thing here will only help people who use a lot 10 of electricity. If you're trying to save 11 electricity, it doesn't matter, your bill is going to 12 be the same. So what good is it? That's my opinion. 13 Thank you. 14 EXAMINER PARROT: Any questions? 15 MR. McKENZIE: No questions. 16 MR. MOORE: No questions, your Honor. 17 EXAMINER PARROT: Thank you. 18 Jeff Wagner. 19 MR. WAGNER: I'll pass, your Honor. 20 EXAMINER PARROT: Dan Clark. Please 21 raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the 22 testimony you're about to give will be the truth? 23 MR. CLARK: I do. 24 EXAMINER PARROT: Please state your name 25 and address. ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 19 1 MR. CLARK: My name is Reverend Dan 2 Clark, 633 South Cassingham Road, Bexley, Ohio, 3 43209. 4 EXAMINER PARROT: Thank you. 5 MR. CLARK: Thank you for the opportunity 6 today to share my concern regarding AEP Ohio's 7 proposal to more than double the fixed charges 8 residents must pay on their electric bills each 9 month. 10 I represent a statewide faith 11 organization that helps over 2,000 faith leaders in 12 Ohio. As a Deputy Director, I see firsthand the 13 hardship of Ohioans. As a pastor, I've seen working 14 class people being nickeled and dimed to death. No 15 one wants to take the blame of causing hardship but 16 everyone steps up to get their nickels and dimes out 17 of these people, hard working Ohioans who live 18 month-to-month and can't afford this price hike. 19 Ohioans take seriously the moral 20 obligation to provide for and care for our families. 21 Any law that makes it harder for us to do so is an 22 unjust, anti-family law. This policy proposal fits 23 that bill. If you're an AEP Ohio customer, you'd see 24 your monthly fixed charge go up to $18.40, more than 25 double the current rate. ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 20 1 Duke Energy Ohio has proposed to raise 2 its customers' fixed charges to $22.77 a month, 3 almost triple the current rate. When you're a low 4 wage family, every penny counts. I know from 5 experience. And as a Christian, I believe it is 6 wrong to take money out of poor people's pockets to 7 enrich powerful special interests. 8 Another mark of good policy is whether it 9 promotes good stewardship of our resources and our 10 planet. By this measure, the proposed increase in 11 fixed charges fails the moral test. It discourages 12 conservation, discourages improving energy 13 efficiency, and penalizes people who are trying to be 14 more responsible in their energy usage. That makes 15 us less efficient and wasteful. It's irresponsible 16 and it's wrong. 17 If you think this rate increase won't 18 have more consequences, then you are wrong. I'm not 19 a technician or economist or a legislator or a 20 government official. I'm a pastor. And I believe 21 that policy that negatively impacts the environment 22 we all share is a serious spiritual issue. As a 23 pastor, I believe that overly burdening the poor for 24 the benefit of those who have more than enough is a 25 spiritual issue. Thank you. ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 21 1 EXAMINER PARROT: Any questions? 2 MR. McKENZIE: No questions. 3 MR. MOORE: No questions, your Honor. 4 EXAMINER PARROT: Thank you. 5 Our next witness is Larry Shutler, I 6 believe. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear 7 or affirm the testimony you're about to give will be 8 the truth? 9 MR. SHUTLER: Yes. 10 EXAMINER PARROT: Please state your name 11 and address. 12 MR. SHUTLER: Larry Shutler. Resident at 13 357 West Southern Avenue, Bucyrus, Ohio. I've been a 14 resident, my wife and I, in Bucyrus for about over 30 15 years. I'm here tonight basically to speak to two 16 points. 17 One being as a resident, I'm concerned 18 about the proposed increase this year, next year, the 19 amount, whether it is progressive or flat rate but up 20 to $18.40. I'm concerned that the -- there's a 21 desperate effort here to cover the costs in a rapidly 22 changing landscape -- energy landscape. 23 I believe that the American Electric 24 Power should specify what they're talking about 25 instead of just saying energy landscape. I think ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 22 1 it's to be pointed out what they're specifying that 2 the increase is necessary for. 3 Secondly, I'm here also to represent the 4 Heritage Village Condo Association as a 5 representative on that board. We have over 42 units 6 in the city of Bucyrus. All of those units are 7 powered by electricity, electrical furnaces. Many of 8 those people, probably over 80 percent, are renters. 9 Those homes, those condo units in the 10 last year have seen a tremendous increase in their 11 monthly bills, plus many of them are on fixed incomes 12 and they're also single parents. One specifically in 13 which I have my unit was just rented out this past 14 November, the young lady has a minimal paying job. 15 She received her first payment utility 16 bill; she was ready to leave right away. I thought 17 we'd check the furnace out and made -- a heat sensor 18 was being replaced, but still the bill was 19 unacceptable. So that for single parents that have 20 minimum incomes, retired people who are on fixed 21 incomes, this is going to be quite a burden. 22 In our county, we have a high 23 unemployment rate. And I think the timing, along 24 with the federal government healthcare costs, I don't 25 think it's a very appropriate time to look at an ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 23 1 increase. That's my point. Thank you. 2 EXAMINER PARROT: Questions? 3 MR. McKENZIE: No questions. 4 MR. MOORE: No questions, your Honor. 5 EXAMINER PARROT: Thank you. 6 Bill O'Rourke. Please raise your right 7 hand. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're 8 about to give will be the truth? 9 MR. O'ROURKE: I do. 10 EXAMINER PARROT: Please state your name 11 and address. 12 MR. O'ROURKE: Bill O'Rourke, 1042 Martha 13 Avenue in Bucyrus. 14 EXAMINER PARROT: Thank you. 15 MR. O'ROURKE: I basically just have one 16 question or two questions. I'm more concerned about 17 the cost of raising an average of over $10 a month 18 per customer by the end of this term of two or three 19 years, whatever they increase it to. So you're 20 talking over $120 a year per household. And I don't 21 know how many households there are, but there's a 22 lot. 23 And just to reiterate Mr. Shutler, we do 24 have a lot of retirees in this town. We have a lot 25 of low income people that are on fixed incomes. And ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 24 1 I did not learn of this until today, this meeting, 2 and otherwise I might have some more questions, but I 3 just look at my costs, what they were three years ago 4 a month, what they are now, and then we want to go 5 add another $120 a year onto that. That's more or 6 less almost a fixed rate, and I just haven't received 7 any explanations what they want to do with that 8 money. Thank you. 9 EXAMINER PARROT: Any questions? 10 MR. McKENZIE: No questions. 11 MR. MOORE: No questions, your Honor. 12 EXAMINER PARROT: Thank you, 13 Mr. O'Rourke. 14 That concludes the witnesses who have 15 signed the sign-up sheet. Is there anyone else in 16 the audience that would like to testify? You know, 17 maybe now you've heard some of the comments, and 18 there's someone else who wishes to speak? Now's your 19 chance. 20 MR. FANKHAUSER: My name is Kurt 21 Fankhauser. 22 EXAMINER PARROT: Go ahead, and your 23 address. 24 MR. FANKHAUSER: 1675 South Sandusky 25 Street, Bucyrus. ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 25 1 EXAMINER PARROT: Can you spell your last 2 name for us since you're not on the roster. 3 MR. FANKHAUSER: F-A-N-K-H-A-U-S-E-R. 4 EXAMINER PARROT: Thank you. Please 5 raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the 6 testimony you're about to give will be the truth? 7 MR. FANKHAUSER: Yes. 8 EXAMINER PARROT: Okay. Go ahead. 9 MR. FANKHAUSER: About a year ago, I 10 found out that there was multiple tariffs. There's 11 like a residential tariff and then starting after 12 that, there's like a small commercial tariff. And 13 you -- there's certain situations where you possibly 14 can be on a different tariff that may actually save 15 you money. 16 AEP never told me this. I found that out 17 on my own, that my residential electric bill after 18 typing it in on their calculator, I would have been 19 saving money every month if I would have been under 20 the small commercial tariff. 21 And I called them, I told them, "I want 22 to switch to this other tariff." And they said, 23 "Well, we've got to -- have to come out to your house 24 and make sure that you're running commercial at your 25 house." I said, "I operate a business from my ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 26 1 house." 2 And they just didn't -- I never got them 3 switched. They kept having excuses. And, I mean, it 4 was pretty significant the one month, I would say 5 $50, by being under this other tariff. And I have 6 many other service locations with them for other 7 services I have. 8 And it's my understanding that this is -- 9 this fixed rate that they're wanting to go up is for 10 the customer charge which is your minimum bill even 11 if you don't use any electric service at all. Well, 12 are their increases -- is their fixed cost for that, 13 you know, billing, you know, is that stuff all going 14 up? 15 Because I see them doing cost savings 16 that actually would make their fixed costs go down. 17 Like the meters that they put in that you don't have 18 to have a person come by and read the numbers now, so 19 they're saving money because of them doing things 20 like that, but then they're saying, "Oh, we need it 21 more." I don't know if they've given a reason for 22 why they want to increase it. 23 But from what I've seen them doing, you 24 know, back a long time ago before computers and 25 things, autogeneration fields, there probably was a ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 27 1 higher cost to do the fixed, you know, sending out of 2 bills and things, but with everything being automated 3 now with computers, it seems like the fixed costs 4 should be going down. So I guess that's just what I 5 have to say. You know, instead of raising it, maybe 6 let's look into lowering it. That's all I have to 7 say. 8 EXAMINER PARROT: Any questions? 9 MR. McKENZIE: No questions. 10 MR. MOORE: No questions, your Honor. 11 EXAMINER PARROT: Anyone else in the 12 audience who wishes to say something? We will stay 13 for a while after we conclude, but this is your last 14 chance to say something that's officially submitted 15 to the Commission on the record. There are other 16 opportunities to comment, and I'll mention that in 17 just a bit, but last chance to actually offer sworn 18 testimony before the Commission. Okay. 19 Well, seeing no one, I thank everyone for 20 coming this evening. This will conclude officially 21 tonight's public hearing. As I mentioned, everything 22 will be submitted as part of the record for the 23 Commission's consideration. As I just said, we will 24 stay for a while to address questions that you may 25 have about the process before the Commission or how ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 28 1 you can file written comments in the docket. And 2 with that, thank you, and we're concluded. 3 (The public hearing was concluded at 6:32 4 p.m.) 5 - - - 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481 29 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I do hereby certify that the foregoing is 3 a true and correct transcript of the proceedings 4 taken by me in this matter on Monday, April 10, 2017, 5 and carefully compared with my original stenographic 6 notes. 7 8 _____________________ ________________________ 9 Cynthia L. Cunningham 10 11 - - - 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ARMSTRONG & OKEY, INC., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481